Episode 01: How to Get Into a Gift Guide or Product Guide w/ Forbes, Refinery29 Writer Margaux Lushing
Do you ever wonder how you can get your business featured in a gift guide or product guide?
My guest in this episode, Margaux Lushing, is joining me to share her expertise and answer all of your questions about it!
Margaux Lushing is a freelance writer and travel startup founder who lives and breathes wellness, and has written product roundups (including gift guides, best-of lists), for Forbes.com, The San Francisco Chronicle, Refinery 29, ArchitecturalDigest.com, House Beautiful, Brides.com, Well + Good, RobbReport.com, 7x7, and others.
Margaux also founded the Well + Away VitalGuides, the first healthy city guidebook series, for which she has won awards in Sunset and Departures magazines. Through her work with Well + Away, Margaux has designed wellness programs for luxury hotels including Four Seasons and Viceroy, as well as Soho House San Francisco.
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
The importance of being in a product roundup
What founders should know about pitching products for gift guides
The benefit of pitching often and following up
How to create a list of writers and form relationships
Pitching do’s and don’ts
The importance of remaining relevant
How to master a direct tone instead of a demanding tone
Whether or not samples are needed during the pitching process
Remember, it is so important to remember to pitch early and pitch often! Margaux mentioned that she is always utilizing her inbox to find the perfect products.
Make sure that you are putting your name in the hat and that your email includes the most relevant and helpful information!
Also, I want to remind you to rate and review the podcast for a chance to win a 1-1 session with me! Click here to review, then select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”!
Resources Mentioned:
Read Margaux's Stories on Forbes
Join the PR Secrets Masterclass
Join the Small Biz PR Pros Facebook Group
Additional Resources:
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Transcript
Gloria Chou : [00:00:04] Hey, friends, I'm Gloria Chou. Small business PR expert, award winning pitch writer and your unofficial hype woman. Nothing makes me happier than seeing people get the recognition they deserve, and that starts with feeling more confident to go bigger with your message. Because let's be honest, we simply cannot make the impact we're here to make by hiding behind the scenes. So on this podcast, I will share with you the untraditional yet proven strategies for PR marketing and creating more opportunity in your business. If you are ready to take control of your narrative and be your most unapologetic and confident self, you're in the right place. This is the Small Business PR podcast. Hey, everyone, I am so excited for this episode of the Small Business PR podcast. Today I have someone that's super special, and she is going to talk all about gift guides and how to get into the most coveted thing, which is one of those best of lists. Do you ever wonder how to get on those? This episode, we're going to go in and we're going to ask all the questions about how to get into a gift guide. But first, I'd love to introduce our guest, Margaux Lushing. She is a freelance writer and travel startup founder who lives and breathes wellness and has written product roundup that includes gift guides and best of lists for all of the top tier outlets you've heard of. Forbes Refinery Well and good rides, you name it. She's probably done it, so I'm so excited for her to share her expertize and so we can get the scoop on what it really takes to get into a gift guide. Thank you so much, Margaux, for being here.
Margaux Lushing: [00:01:29] Thank you, Gloria.
Speaker1: [00:01:31] So tell me a little bit more about your experience. Like, I see that you are a freelance writer. You've written about all of the different things. So can you introduce a little bit about kind of your writing and this kind of niche? Because I I know that doing product roundups is a little bit different than maybe like a breaking news journalist, right?
Speaker2: [00:01:47] Sure. Sure. Yes, very different than my journalism colleagues on the front lines of whatever their hard news beat is, I work on the wellness and lifestyle end of things. So hard news for me is a at home cycling company, raising some money or launching new pedals on their bike. That is more of the area that that I am in.
Speaker1: [00:02:10] And I will say that, you know, in all of the founders that I work with, mostly beauty, wellness, this is kind of the holy grail. It's like, how do I get my product into these lists, these product roundups? So but before we get into that, I want to ask you, why is it so important to get into one? Why is this so coveted to be able to be in these product roundups without, you know, other than, let's say, paying for an ad?
Speaker2: [00:02:35] Sure, sure. It's a great question. And I think to be super transparent, I don't have the the ultimate answer. I think founders and and people who look at their traffic and look at their business performance and look at how things are selling over the holidays, over Valentine's Day, over Mother's Day, how things are doing and where that traffic is coming from, I think they can probably tell you better than me. All I can tell you is that I get a lot of inbound emails telling me why I should put insert product here into whichever upcoming gift guide I have, right?
Speaker1: [00:03:10] And this is obviously a more credible than buying an ad because you are a credible, legitimate writer. So I mean, just from a credibility point of view, I think it definitely checks all the boxes.
Speaker2: [00:03:20] Sure. I mean, I think we've all read ads where we roll our eyes, right? I think anyone, I think there's data all over the place about this generation, millennial generation and younger, maybe even Gen X, who we don't really take ad seriously. I think it's why a lot of advertising agencies have honestly changed the way their businesses operate because people don't respond to campaigns the way that they used to. And that third party earned not paid for endorsement, I think goes a lot further across a lot of mediums, be that traditional journalism, newspapers, magazines, digital and even even influencers now.
Speaker1: [00:03:59] Amen. That's what I'm all about here. Gloria Chopra So tell me a little bit more about like gift guides versus like regular news or podcasts or something like that. Obviously, like it's different because it's kind of more of a list form. But is there anything founders should know about pitching or the timeline or even from your point of view?
Speaker2: [00:04:17] Sure. I think it's a great question, and honestly, we could probably spend a whole hour just covering this specific question. There's many ways I can answer this. I think in short, if we're thinking about the process and how you know, there is a founder at their inbox thinking, Oh, shoot, we're launching this thing in six weeks, OK, I've seen this writer on. We'll use Forbes as an example, just because it's in my head all the time. How do I get in touch with them? How do I try to pitch them for their upcoming guide gift? Best of Guide Gift Guide. I think one timing is really important. I think being able to give someone enough time, I think saying, Oh, this launched three days ago is not going to help me very much. I think also just making sure that it fits with what that reporter is writing about. I think taking the time to put together an email that is is concise and respectful of time and also just being to the point is a huge, huge help.
Speaker1: [00:05:22] Yeah, so would you say that if you're pitching to like a gift guide or product guy versus, you know, someone who doesn't cover it and covers more general news interest? Tell me more about the timeline. Should you be like, let's say like, you know, it's December, you know, twenty fifth is a Christmas. Like, when do the gift guides come out and then when should people pitch before it actually gets published and selected?
Speaker2: [00:05:42] Sure, sure. And I think I can go back to your other question and sort of combine these a little bit. If you have major news coming out, right, if you're launching a company, if you're raising money and you want to announce that, but it's not, it's not enough money where you have a team of forty five publicists helping you. It's still just you or you in a couple of colleagues when it's a feature, when you're launching, when it's hard news. I think two weeks is great. Different writers have different preference, but I think at least two weeks we have this coming up. We think that you'll be a great fit. We really like your column. I read this story. And if it's just news that is maybe more product focused, you're launching a product or or product has just been performing really well. Maybe it's not a new product, but it's a product that's been out for three years. But all of a sudden, within the last three weeks, the sales have gone up 12 hundred percent. That's that's interesting news, too. And if it falls into if it is within wellness, I'm curious to know about it when it comes to, on the other hand, gift guides. Gloria, it's so all over the map. I swear I start getting holiday like end of year holiday gift guide pitches in probably may. I mean, really, really early. Not a lot. Not a lot, but I have some. There are some eager beavers who will email me in May saying This is like I haven't even done Father's Day gift guides yet, and I'm getting pitched end of year, so I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker2: [00:07:07] I think it's also really important to just say that I am one person, I am one freelancer. I write these for some specific outlets, every outlet is different, every writer is different. I think pitching staff gift guides versus freelancers is also different. So that is my preface to my timeline answer. But for me, starting, I think between four to six weeks out from a given holiday, maybe four to eight weeks out from a given holiday for me is a sweet spot. I think that always differs. And that's why I think if you're as a founder, you're thinking you're going to reach out to some writers to to ask about this. I think it's totally fine to be a little bit more casual. Hey, I wanted to pitch this for holiday. I don't know if you're working on that yet or if or if you're working on any other roundups or any other stories for which this might fit. But this is my product, and maybe it is too early for gift guides, which I don't know. I tend to work a little more last minute, so it probably is a little early for me. But I may be coincidentally working on a story for which that product might fit perfectly. That is maybe a best of list about something else or a different kind of story that could fit. And sometimes it happens, I think more frequently than you would imagine that a pitch aligns with the story I'm already working on that is outside of a traditional gift guide.
Speaker1: [00:08:26] And this is something I always say to is like, don't be afraid to put your name in the hat because you're going to be tasked with something and then you're going to go back to your inbox, whether it be one month or three months and you might do a quick search. Is that right?
Speaker2: [00:08:38] Always, always. I'm always going in my inbox. I'm always like, Oh, why did I open that meal when I was that email, when I was just waking up really early in the morning, someone sent it from the East Coast. I'm on the West Coast. I looked at it with one eye and I thought, Ooh, I need to go back to this. This is a good fit. I don't hear from them again. There's just that one email. I forget about it. And then three months later, I'm working on something else. Oh yeah, what was that? And I try to go into my email and try as best as I can to find that. So yes, I do go back in time often.
Speaker1: [00:09:09] I'm so glad you said it, because for so many small business entrepreneurs who cannot afford an agency, they don't have the PR experience or kind of the the experience to be like, I'm going to just keep pitching all day, every day, right? It's not their natural thing to do. So even sending that one email can be super scary, but you're saying that you really should pitch and pitch often as long as you're not being super demanding about it, you should follow up. I mean, do you think most of your stories that you actually write about happen to be people who happen to follow up with you more and just remind you, like, Hey, we're here?
Speaker2: [00:09:39] That's a great question. Honestly, it might just depend on my bandwidth. Maybe sometimes I see something and I mean to get back to when I don't because I'm really busy. And sometimes it's that follow up that reminds me, Oh, shoot, that is really great. That is a perfect fit. Other times I am actively working on something. Something comes into my inbox, and within two minutes I'm like, Oh my gosh, thank you so much for your perfect timing and perfect product. This is very helpful.
Speaker1: [00:10:03] So pitch early pitch often you never know when you're going to go back into your inbox. So it's so good. I'm glad that we're aligned there. So now let's actually get into like the actionable steps, right? So let's say I am a clean beauty founder or, you know, I made some like yoga mat spray, let's say, right? Because you're in wellness, I have no idea. How to even pitch an editor, I've never sent an email to an editor, I don't know any editors, I don't know any writers, they don't know how to find them. What are the steps that I should take to even start this journey of being considered to be on a gift guide? Sure.
Speaker2: [00:10:35] I think a way of looking at it for founders, perhaps might be it just takes time. There really is no no shortcut, especially in the beginning. It will get easier. It will get faster eventually. I assume that many or most people will be able to have a budget to hire a team to take this off of their plate. But in those early stages, you need to put in the time to find five 10 writers who really align well with your product. Write down their names, write down their outlets, write down recent stories linked to them so they're fresh in your memory. I think that is the most important first step, because even if someone used to work, your friend used to work with an agency, they gave you this list from three years ago, and you have a list of three hundred names you can just blast it out. I would say that chances are that list of five to 10 people that you spent maybe four hours on, maybe maybe a whole day on, maybe an hour. If you're really fast and good at this, that would probably be more valuable than that list that someone shared of three hundred names that you have no personal connection to.
Speaker1: [00:11:43] Right. Or from three years ago, so I think it's important to have three years to have an updated and know what they cover there about me, I mean, if you can tell a lot about a journalist by, they're like, you know, their profile about what they write about. So I always say, like, don't pitch your leather bag handbag line to someone who is a vegan, you know?
Speaker2: [00:12:01] I know. Well, and Gloria, you know, I have like I've shared with you, I mean, I get plenty of pictures all the time. I I am your vegan example, and I get a lot of pitches about cheese, about whether about bake and about a new jerky company that's not mushroom jerky like traditional jerky. And I just I almost feel badly because they're just they could be spending their time better on somebody else, right?
Speaker1: [00:12:24] Or actually just spending five more minutes to just do a quick search to see what you covered and they would know you don't cover cheese or really edible things anyways. You know you cover wellness and travel. So that's that's another thing, too.
Speaker2: [00:12:36] Mm hmm. So I think that's really the most important is having a great list and then we can get more into the contents of the email. But I think that that list is really the foundation and just being able to nurture those relationships, I may I think that's the most important thing.
Speaker1: [00:12:52] Yeah. And I always say it's a relationship. So, you know, in my starter pack, I give them the tools, but I really want them to take a long term view because if you can actually build a relationship with someone that is going to yield such high, higher dividends, right? And even if it's like one story or three stories, or maybe they'll introduce you to someone else, it just it keeps on giving. So I think having that, that mentality is so good. So I want to get into the actual pitching do's and don'ts. And I think it comes a lot from like what I said about the intention, right? So what what's an example of a bad pitch, whether it's like just the wrong tone or the wrong energy or actually like the contents of the email, it's just straight up. Not a good fit, OK?
Speaker2: [00:13:31] It's a long list. The Dos are the long list, too, but the don'ts is a long list. Ok, I know we have briefly talked about this before, so I'm going to try to remember as much as I can. But I think I mean things that I've just I'll start with things that I've just seen today in my inbox. One is telling me that they can offer my readers 15 percent off of their next purchase. I think that is perhaps a good thing to share with a blogger. But as someone who writes for publications that are not blogs, I think that it just doesn't. I don't. It's not something that is of interest and it takes up time. And if that's toward the top of the email, then I just it's not helpful. I think the other thing is if, oh gosh, don't I think not linking to the product telling me how great something is and then not linking to it, I feel like that's such an easy one. And maybe people do that accidentally, but I really do see that every day. I think not again, not taking the time to see who's the right person to be pitching and pitching the leather jacket to the vegan. I think that's that's another one or pitching. I don't know a new car part to someone who covers clean beauty. I think that is that's a big one. I think other don'ts are just copying and pasting a press release. If it's big enough news, if really like if someone just got two hundred million dollars for their clean beauty startup and that they just launched two months ago from the most important VCs, OK, maybe I'll open it because that's really hugely impressive, but it's if it's a small startup, I think it really needs to be tailored. It really helps to be tailored to that person. And I would say for the body of the email and the subject line too, I think a subject line that shows that you know who you're pitching and you know what that work looks like. Sometimes even people put my name in the subject line. I think that helps.
Speaker1: [00:15:32] So in terms of the gift guide subject line, what like what are some good examples of good gift guide, subject lines and bad ones?
Speaker2: [00:15:40] Ok. So I think the short answer is going back to what we were talking about earlier. Anything that when I'm scrambling and I have like three days to put one together and I'm like, Oops, I know I saw that email somewhere that seemed like a good one. And I'll put it in my my email search for it to come up in the subject line. So anything that feels like I can easily search for it in the subject line is great. Anything that. Is specific enough and isn't salesy, and if it's, you know, a new clean beauty, I know that was the example you're using earlier new talc free, clean beauty mineral powder that has SPF that comes in some beautifully packaged thing for holiday. Be clear about what that is and a subject line or what else the yoga or the yoga yoga mat cleaner spray, if it's from a great brand, could be the first yoga spray by this brand or anything that's really, really specific. So I can understand what the audience is, what the product is, who it's for.
Speaker1: [00:16:41] I mean, you've given up so much. I hope people are taking notes, by the way, because you're just dropping gem after gem. So, for example, like like, write this headline OK, OK, OK, gift guide semicolon. Best Best gifts for the best gifts for pregnant moms under $50. I sick enough or not.
Speaker2: [00:17:01] I think it can be good. But if if that's what it is, I'm assuming that's coming from an agency and there's like five to eight products in that email. If it's someone who has something that is forty five dollars for that person, I think if they say what it is like, this is the best, you know, besting or a first insert thing here, especially loved by this type of person. I think that is useful because I know this is one particular product, right?
Speaker1: [00:17:34] So whether it's like a billy cream or fish oil or something like that, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I definitely do believe that like being specific and I always say this all the time. So specificity is good now. You know, as you know, I have this method called the CPR method that I teach to founders who are trying to pitch, and the most important thing is relevance. How much does relevance matter for a pitch, whether it's a gift guide or not? Gift guide pitch?
Speaker2: [00:18:00] I think this is another great question. And again, like I am one person, I think other people may have different perspectives, and I think that people who work in in digital and right for digital editorial outlets differ from people who work in broadcast. I think National Taco Day for me doesn't strike a chord. I'm really not going to open that up. It doesn't really help me in any way. But if someone's working at a national broadcast, they're working with that kind of team, I think it might be a different story. So I think being specific and seasonal, I think, can help. I guess there's more risk, sure, because chances are that it's not going to be the exact right thing, but that right thing might come up in the future. But if it is the right thing and things align, then it makes it so much easier to just say yes. And I can probably pull a lot of information directly from that first email. And one email is never enough. I mean, it's going to take some back and forth, but I think that's worth the risk because you're never going to be everything to everybody. You're never going to. It's not going to be the perfect gift for every single person in your life and every single gift guide and every single media outlet. It's never going to happen.
Speaker1: [00:19:10] Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. One thing you also mentioned earlier is like, Don't be sales. Don't send me like a mass email that is 15 percent off to my readers. But first of all, we never see that in like a Forbes or refiner anyways. So what do you have to say about like the tone of it? Like what is the type of writing that makes it sound like they're demanding or dictating? And what like, I feel like it's kind of a balance, right? Because they are obviously talking about themselves and the product. So how can you strike a balance between being direct about I want this to be featured and then not dictating or demanding?
Speaker2: [00:19:45] Sure. I think the answer is really to just be a person like I understand I, I interview founders a lot. I work with a lot of founders. I email a lot of founders. It's hard. You are stressed. You are deeply passionate about your product. I know they're talking to different types of audiences all the time. I would say it's somewhere. It's somewhere in between talking to a new hire, an investor over a cup of coffee and talking to their, you know their mom. You know what I mean? Like, be a person, be direct. It's probably not the first time I've heard this story. You know it, no matter what it is. I mean, I'm sure I'm sure there is someone listening now or a client of yours who really does have the most unique story. But it's rare that I get that. And if it's a roundup, it's not really about the story. It's really about the product. Does it really matter how it got there? So, yeah, just be human. And this can even there's I really don't think there is. I mean, I'm sure there is a limit to how vulnerable you should be in an email. But even if it's like, Hey, I've read your Mother's Day stories, I've read your Father's Day stories, I I saw that you covered sexiest sustainable gifts for Valentine's Day.
Speaker2: [00:20:58] I just launched a new. I don't know what it is sustainable, a vegan, sustainable purse line. And I think it would be perfect if you're working on any gift guides that include this. Honestly, this is the first time I've ever written one of these emails. I don't know what you think. Let me know if you have any questions. Here's what I've shared with. Here's what I have. I hope this helps. If there was anything else I can get you. Let me know. I mean, it's fine. You don't have to. You don't have to pretend to be a 20 year PR agency veteran. I mean, I know you're not, and I think it's also kind of charming, I'll say, to get an email where the signature is just says your name and it's your first name at your company. And it's I sort of have an idea that you're a founder or I can look it up and I'm like, Oh man, this is so great that it's a founder who's like, just pitching me, just trying. And they're not making a, you know, they're just going for it. They're doing a lot. I always have a lot of respect for that.
Speaker1: [00:21:56] Oh, thank you for saying that because that's all. That's what we're here to do is encourage people and to say, you know, we don't have anything against agencies before my community of small business owners. It's just not feasible, right? So what do you have to say about kind of learning how to pitch and doing this themselves? Because so many founders, their biggest roadblock is I know I'm doing something great, but I can't afford an agency. So I guess I just don't do PR. I guess I just will never get featured until I can hire an agency. And I think I don't think that that's right. You know, I think there's got to be a way for them to still get featured.
Speaker2: [00:22:30] Sure. I mean, I'm sure there are some sensitive industries right where there is when there is legal liability or there is FDA liability where it really is. It really is difficult to be able to tell that story. And if it's health care or medicine, I understand sensitivity. If it's a new water bottle, then there's nothing to be sensitive about and just assume you're going to hear back from like two percent of the people that you're emailing. And if you hear back from war, be really delighted about it. But I don't think that anyone needs to wait to hire that agency until they have enough funding to be able to do that. I also think that if you can find the bandwidth to spend some time on PR, I think you'll end up learning so much about how everything works and when the time does come to be able to hire that agency, you'll know so much more and you'll be such a better, you'll be better at that RFP. You'll be a better PR agency manager, or you'll be able to able to better help your marketing team or PR team manage that agency. I think the other part of this is, I think a lot of founders are they go into it knowing I'm going to have to spend a lot of time learning how to do e-commerce. I'm going to. I know I have to spend a lot of time knowing how to hire.
Speaker2: [00:23:44] I need to understand how basic ad work AdWords works right? And but I don't think they feel the same way about PR. They think they can put it off or have someone junior do it or they don't know. And so they give up, take a weekend, put that list together, send some emails and you'll learn. If nothing else, you'll learn. I think the other, the other side of it is not taking the time and just sending something out to a list and hoping isn't going to help. And I think the other thing that's that's really tricky that I have seen a lot in the past is people who have a limited budget and they say, Oh, well, you know this five thousand I have a month for my entire marketing budget will only get me this much in terms of marketing or pay per click, but I can actually get this agency to do one month of work. I'm going to put my entire budget into this agency. And if anything doesn't go exactly as we hope, then my money is gone and I have nothing to show for it. So I think it's also just a huge risk putting so much of such a big percentage of a budget into PR so early on. I think it just is super high risk.
Speaker1: [00:24:57] Yeah, I always say, like, you know, in the day of like the pandemic world, we're not we're not going to fancy cocktail parties with editors. You know, your chances of getting into the inbox just as much as the other one and and correct me if I'm wrong. But when you're reading the email, you don't feel more impressed if someone says my client versus my product, right?
Speaker2: [00:25:17] Not more, not more impressed at all. I will say that I do have many trusted PR colleagues who I've known for years, and I know that there are clients are great and they know how I how I work. They know how to best work with me. And I think those are very trusted sources. It's a small it's a small percentage of what I get in my inbox each day. And as I said earlier, I have so much respect for founders who do it the right way, not founders who are like, I'm just going to talk to this writer like I sell on, like I talk in Instagram or like, I'm just going to copy and paste from my investor deck because it's there like it. Just I'm just not going to keep opening those emails because I know that they don't really they haven't really tried to meet me where I am and try to help me with my work. Because ultimately, what? What is the, you know, how are. Helping me, I just I'm trying to pump these stories out, I'm trying to come up with the best gift guy I can to help readers as much as possible, so if they're showing me to help a reader, that's great. If they're just copying and pasting something that says this is the best ever a 15 percent off share with your followers, then it's just it's not helping me. It's definitely not helping the readers.
Speaker1: [00:26:23] Yes. And I always say, you know, you're a vessel of information. You are that person that's able to carry that story. But you know, the founders are not selling to you, so they shouldn't have to convince you it's, you know, so I think a lot of times founders forget that that like you're not actually selling to the journalist and also that the email is just literally the point of a conversation. It starts a conversation. It's not going to be the full story. And a lot of times founders try to write the story, the entire story in the pitch. Do you have something to say about that as well? Or they're like, Yeah, this is massive email.
Speaker2: [00:26:57] It just makes me feel bad. I get these emails where someone's written a whole story and they're like, How does this work for you? It's not. Maybe one day so far it has not worked. It has not worked for me. Yeah, but yeah. So it is about the readers. And I do think the other thing that you made me think of is I also am not new to wellness. So someone's working on a wellness product, and maybe they came from a completely different industry and they've been working in wellness for 18 months, and I've been doing this for years and years. I also don't need at the beginning of an email, a whole primer on why wellness matters. Now I do know why. Well, why wellness matters now.
Speaker1: [00:27:38] Yep, and you've got to be more specific than that, right? And we keep coming back to specificity and you've got to differentiate your product or it wouldn't get written up, right? So like you always say, founders have this kind of narcissist syndrome where like, we feel like what we're doing is the best right? So, so can you. So, for example, like if someone says, Oh, this is like the cleanest supplement or whatever, like how can we kind of chip away at that and make it more specific in a way that the editor would be like, OK, this is not just some fluffy word.
Speaker2: [00:28:06] Yeah. This is hard because they're our friends I have who our founders or friends who are trying to help a founder friend, and they're forwarding me an email saying, Can you do anything with this? And the email does say this is the best. This is the cleanest. And I sometimes in my weaker moments, I suppose I'll say OK, but what makes it the cleanest? What data do you have to back that up? What makes it the best? What awards or data do you have to back it up? And it's not. It's not going to be putting your best foot forward if that's what you're leading with, because that's like it's it takes up too much, too much time. And there's other people who who just are better. They get to the point and they tell me, Oh, it's forty seven percent of this pure grade this, then it's thirty seven percent of this. And this hasn't been done before, and this is the first time it's for sale in California, the first time it's for sale in the U.S. and I can get boom, boom, boom, those bullets out front and I don't need to do as much digging. So I think at this point, I think I I've become a little. It's just hard I know where someone's coming from, when they want to say that, and maybe it does work with some audiences and maybe it works on social, but it just. I think you just specificity is really important.
Speaker1: [00:29:25] Yeah, and it shows that you've done the work to right, if I'm pitching you something that's clean a supplement, if I say this is a clean supplement, it's kind of much easier approach than saying this is zero sugar made with super food from Patagonia, you know, things like that. So yes, it's that.
Speaker2: [00:29:38] And also because I get so many emails in my inbox, there are plenty of businesses who pitch me. This is the cleanest supplement and in reality, it's the dirtiest supplement. But because they don't show me any data, they think I'm not going to know the difference. And there's a lot of that. There is a lot of that. There's a lot of claims that are not true because they sort of play with the language in a way, and it just there may very well be one of those emails. This is the cleanest and it actually is, but I'm not going to notice because I've gotten so many that are actually from I'll call them dirty companies, but probably just a company who isn't that clean that I just it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker1: [00:30:16] Yeah. Be more creative with your words. I mean, come on. Like, everything is breakthrough. Everything is revolutionary. Everything is just matter. Yeah, let's peel away the onion. So you've given us so much insight and actionable tips from subject lines to when to send to how, you know, don't don't include an investor deck. I think you also said something about like a media kit. Like, Let's ask one question. I get asked a lot is like, do we even need me to kits in twenty twenty one? Like, should they send that to you in the first email or no?
Speaker2: [00:30:42] I think the press kit is extremely important to have to have on hand. I don't think it's extremely important to have on your website. I think the most important thing to have on your the press section of your website is an email. Maybe that's the founder of email. Maybe that's a trusted colleague. Maybe it's you, Gloria. I don't know who that person is, but I think all I think when at least when I'm going to a website and I'm looking for more information on a product, all I want to see on the press page is someone's name. I rarely find what I need and the media kit on a website that said having a press kit, which to me just means a Google folder where you have images, a variety of sizes, a variety of lifestyle and product shots and orientations. I mean, I always like to use horizontal, not vertical for web. Having that, having a press release on the launch of something is really, really important. Sometimes I do get pictures without a press release, and it just is so much harder to find the information because there isn't a location where everything I need is there and then I can ask follow up questions. Yeah. I also think in a press kit, having a bio like a real bio with real detailed information about the founders, about the team, who's the co-founder? Who's this? Sometimes they feel like these titles are so confusing and co-founders are confusing. And this is a co-founder, but CMO and their CEO is, you know, sometimes it gets very confusing. So just being very clear about that and a company backgrounder is really helpful to have to. Sometimes it's not always clear, Oh, this this company came from this other company. It's a spin off or it's under this umbrella or this is the company, but this is only their first product and this first product is launched under this other company name. Just being able to have that in one place where I can in two minutes get the total lay of the land is really helpful.
Speaker1: [00:32:36] Yeah, but don't attach it into email unless you ask for it, right? It's kind of a second step once once you're interesting.
Speaker2: [00:32:42] And it really I mean, it really doesn't ever have to be an attachment. It can just be a link to a Google drive.
Speaker1: [00:32:46] Yeah, that's what I always say. Ok, so, so many things. Last time, last time we talked, you also said some things, so obviously don't send the coupon code. What about another pet peeve you have when people are like, Oh, like, share this with your followers? So should we be careful about about saying followers versus readers?
Speaker2: [00:33:03] Yeah, I think it's just really important to remember the distinction between influencers and journalists. Thank you. Our jobs are very different. Our audiences are very different. My job isn't to take pictures of something, and it's and pretend I'm using it in my life. And when I pick it up from a pile of 20 other things and I'm doing the same thing with, I mean, I know there is wonderful influencers out there, but it's it's very different. It's I don't use coupon codes. I don't it doesn't really help me to know that these other three influencers like the product and that you can share pictures of those other influencers in the product. I don't need to know that you're available on Skimlinks or different affiliate networks. I just I can't do anything with it. And absolutely, if someone's like, Oh, we can, we'd appreciate it. If you would share this with your followers, it just makes me think that influencers are their priority. So they write the email for the influencer and then they copy and paste and they figure, Oh, we have ten more minutes, let's just blast it out to a bunch of reporters as well.
Speaker1: [00:34:09] Yeah, no, it's definitely so, so different. And I think as social media becomes what it is, it's hard to get that that that line straight. But I think that's like the number one thing you need to do is like journalism is not dead and there's. Intimate journalism and then there's like the bloggers who might be taking a commission or they might want some free merchandise, so, you know, we definitely talked about that. And that brings me to my last question is people are like, OK for gift guides. Do I send samples? Do I not send samples? What if I don't have money to send samples?
Speaker2: [00:34:37] I think it can be very helpful, especially if you don't have someone who's put together. If you're not really confident that you can put together the best written information, I think it can be really helpful and helpful for a gift guide. Sure. But I sometimes, you know, there is something that either I've purchased myself in real life or have gotten temporarily as a sample, and it's worked for a gift guide. But then it's it's proven to be useful for a future story. And I or it's something that I maybe use for a gift guide and I kept using it after and it ended up turning into a feature because it was something that I found so indispensable or it'll find its way into other stories. This has happened numerous times where there's something that someone pitched me for a gift guide or a sample was shared for some previous story, and I ended up using it for a number of other outlets down the road. That happens very frequently. So I I think it can be helpful. I think it also can be helpful if the only information you have on a particular product is like one line on the on the product page on the website. That said, of course, if bandwidth is limited, if logistics are challenging, if you're in another country, it's absolutely not a requirement. I think sometimes it can be helpful, especially if it's a more complicated product or if if some know a lot of founders and PR people will say to me, You know what? It sounds, OK, it doesn't sound so spectacular, but please try it like you need to try it and you'll see. And oftentimes they're right and it really is so special. And I wouldn't have known if they just told me this is the cleanest supplement ever.
Speaker1: [00:36:20] Yeah, one hundred percent. So try to give the experience. If if you know, it's not feasible for you to send like a home gym, for example, you know.
Speaker2: [00:36:27] Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we did talk about this earlier, which is absolutely if if samples aren't possible or if you're not comfortable or if it's if it's too big of a sample or, you know, of course, just, I think, trying to be creative and trying to help a writer experience it in some way. And that sometimes could be a meeting with the founder to learn more about it. Sometimes it could be something more creative. Sometimes there is. There's a vent that people do or just inviting. Maybe you're doing a partnership with a brick and mortar and you can invite a writer in to experience it in some capacity. Those things can be really helpful.
Speaker1: [00:37:04] Yeah. Well, thank you so much for all the gems that you've dropped. And I guess, you know, out of all my last questions, I guess this is the last one is I always tell my founders to not be afraid to reach out and follow up on social media if they have a really good pitch, that's value driven. You know, how do you feel about reaching out not only on email, but also like on LinkedIn, for example?
Speaker2: [00:37:23] Ok, when you first mentioned that you recommend to clients that they reach out on LinkedIn, I I was well, I don't know of any other PR people who are telling their clients to do this, because LinkedIn, I think, is one of the maybe the only area that I really just exclusively use for work. I don't really use it that often at all. So when somebody's messaging messages me on LinkedIn, I mean, when it's not a spam thing, I I think it's so compelling. And whenever I think I can say confidently, whenever it's been a wellness or travel or design, like somewhere within my my area that I cover whenever it's been a founder who's reached out to me directly on LinkedIn, I think I've always ended up having a conversation with them because it just does not happen very frequently. And it's been a combination of just reaching out cold on there or following up because they're like, Hey, I'm sure your inbox is crazy. I just wanted to share some info about this is what we do over here at this company.
Speaker1: [00:38:21] Boom, there you go. That's how you do it, founders. Thank you so much, Marco. How can people find you and tell me a little bit more about your travel startup, how they can give you some visibility? Show you some love. Let us know.
Speaker2: [00:38:32] Thanks, Gloria. Yeah. So you can see my my work for Forbes. Just you can look my name, my name up in Forbes there. I have also started. I write for a number of other publications, including brides, and I've started writing first person design essays for House Beautiful, which has been very fun and very different for me. My work with Well Underway, where I work with hotels to make healthy hotel rooms is a whole nother subject where I just try to help hotels, help their guests be as healthy as possible. And anyone can email me about that stuff too. But thank you so much. This is so fun. I hope this was helpful.
Speaker1: [00:39:11] Thank you so much, Mario, and for everyone that's listening, you spell your name. Mhra G8X.
Speaker2: [00:39:17] Yes, yes, but don't feel too bad. If you get it wrong, if you try to pitch me, it happens every day.
Speaker1: [00:39:23] Oh, thank you so much for your generosity and thank you for being on the show. And I look forward to seeing what you build with, well, in a way. And also, I'm going to be looking out for the products you pick for this year's gift guide. Let's see who makes the cut. Thank you. Just finished another episode of the Small Business PR podcast, I hope you loved it as much as I did. Now if you want to get free organic press features, get on to top podcasts and build relationships with editors at your dream outlets. Join me and hundreds of small business owners in the PR starter pack. It's the world's only PR tool that combines my proprietary CPR pitching framework with updated and super detailed media lists, so you'll never need to search for an editors contact again or wonder exactly what to write in the pitch. Email from proven pitch templates to gift guides to podcast lists, and so much more. It's the PR secret weapon of small the mighty businesses who know that they're meant to go bigger with their message, even if they're just starting out. Go to prstarterpack.com and see how founders from every industry leveraged it. To get on to the New York Times, PopSugar, Vogue, Shape, Wall Street Journal and so many more journalists. No PR agency retainers, no expensive contracts required, and best of all, no ads or relying on relationships or other people to vouch for you because the PR starter pack has everything you need to feel ready and confident to pitch like the industry expert, you know you are. I know you're going to love it. So go to prstarterpack.com and I'll talk to you next week.