Episode 214: How to Brand Authentically and Attract Your “Hell Yes” People with Sarah Ashman
In this episode of the Small Business PR Podcast, Gloria dives into why so many small business owners struggle to connect online—and how authentic branding is the secret to attracting your “Hell yes!” clients. She sits down with branding strategist Sarah Ashman, who has worked with Nike, Estee Lauder, and Madonna, to unpack what it really means to show up in alignment, radiate your values, and let your audience feel your energy.
Sarah and Gloria break down the subtle cues your audience senses, why “proving energy” can push people away, and practical ways to check in with yourself so your messaging and offerings land authentically—whether you sell a product or a service.
What Branding Isn’t — And Why It Matters
Branding is not:
🙅♀️ Just a logo, website, or Instagram feed
🙅♀️ Relying solely on credentials or authority to impress
🙅♀️ Following templates or “shoulds” that don’t reflect who you are
That’s surface-level branding. Real branding is about alignment, energy, and authenticity—so your audience knows who you are and why they should care.
What Branding Actually Is
💡 Being congruent: your words, energy, and actions all match
💡 Showing up relaxed and confident, not trying to prove yourself
💡 Grounded in your values and the story behind your work
💡 A daily practice of checking in with yourself first, then letting that guide your external messaging
Gloria and Sarah explain why audiences have “digital Spidey senses” for inauthenticity—and how showing up from your inner truth builds trust, loyalty, and connection.
Key Takeaways from This Episode
How to notice when your energy and messaging aren’t aligned
Why relaxed, genuine presence lands better than polished authority
The mindset shift that turns your work into a story people feel, not just hear
How authenticity applies to both service- and product-based businesses
Ways to use AI to clarify your messaging without losing your personal “heartbeat”
Final Thoughts
If you’re ready to attract your “Hell yes!” clients and build a brand that feels authentic to you, this episode gives you the tools and mindset shifts to check in with your inner truth, align your messaging, and radiate confidence. It’s never been a better time to stop following old templates and start showing up fully as yourself.
Resources Mentioned:
Join the PR Secrets Masterclass
Join the Small Biz PR Pros Facebook Group
DM the word “PITCH” to us on Instagram to get a pitching freebie https://www.instagram.com/gloriachoupr
Connect with Gloria Chou on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gloriaychou
Join Gloria Chou's PR Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/42863325495194
Connect with Sarah Ashman: https://sarahashman.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahashman
Additional Resources:
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TRANsCRIPT
00:00:01 Gloria: Hey, small business heroes. Welcome back to Small Business PR, where we make PR marketing super accessible for the everyday small business underdog. So I usually don't do episodes like this at all, but I had to bring my friend on. She is such an exquisite gem of a human. She's really tapped into the ethos of what we're feeling and you'll find out why after this episode. So this is all going to be about branding, but not in the Canva, cutesy, Instagram, external branding kind of way. It's about how are we feeling together as a collective. And one of the things that Sarah, who's going to come on, told me is that we are in an era where people are more hypersensitive than ever to be able to pick up on the conscious and subconscious cues on whether or not someone is being authentic.
00:00:40 Gloria: And as you know, authenticity is very important to me. So we're gonna break that down. What does it mean to have congruence? What does it mean when someone is branding themselves in a way that is not resonating? And maybe you are also trying to figure out where you are in the midst of all this change. So today we're gonna talk about how to align yourself authentically, brand yourself so that you can attract the right people, right? This is what we want. So welcome, Sarah, to the show.
00:01:03 Sarah: Thank you so much for having me. Really excited to be here.
00:01:06 Gloria: So you have been a veteran branding strategist. You've worked with Nike, Estee Lauder, Madonna. This is really cool. But I think when people talk about branding, they think website, logos, images. So can you break it down for me? Because I think you just have a beautiful, deep way of explaining what branding means to you.
00:01:25 Sarah: Fundamentally, branding is really the story that you tell about who you are and what you're all about to the world. Especially for those of us whose work is an extension of who we are, that could look like many things. It's about telling the story, not just to the world, but also you telling yourself the story about who you are to yourself.
001:01:52 Gloria: Ooh, that is so important. So I want to talk about where we are now, like just time and place, right? We've gone through a global pandemic. We have gone through tens of thousands of hours sitting on Zoom, scrolling on our phones, and we are so good at sussing out the bullshit, and we can say that on the show. So can you tell me a little bit more about what we talked about at lunch when you came to visit me about what does it mean to have digital Spidey senses?
00:02:16 Sarah: Because we've been in this space and a lot of us have been burned by over promises or bamboozled by polished facades… also, you know, even just collectively, the fake news that surrounds us and having to discern, we've developed, as you said, a digital Spidey sense. And it really is us adapting, us being able to pick up on subconscious cues and patterns that otherwise we weren't maybe able to pick up on before.
00:02:46 Sarah: And that's really just us being able to stay safe. It's us being able to become more discerning, to make choices that are best for us. And we really have been able to pick up on really just, I would say, whether someone is who they say they are or whether what they're saying is really true for them or in alignment because that's really fundamentally what tells us if something or someone is right to buy from or to follow. That's ultimately what I believe is underneath the “trust recession” that we are experiencing. use my air quotes, but I think that's really what's underneath it.
00:03:30 Gloria: We are in the online space. We know so many people and we know one thing is true, which is there has never been a time in online business where it's been harder to do business and the same old templates, the same old things just don't work like they used to. And I actually wrote an email about this. It's sad, obviously, that people's businesses aren't working like the well-oiled machine, the cash cow it used to be, but it also presents an amazing opportunity because it liberates us from what I call the shoulds.
00:03:56 Gloria: And it gives us this freedom to be ourselves because we've been so hardwired to not be ourselves and follow other people's templates. And I know because I've also been brainwashed by the marketing bros, this unlearning, this journey, but I think it's so important to first let people know that we're not saying that it's good or bad, right, to be yourself or not be yourself. You have absolute freedom to brand yourself however you want, but it's really about what you attract and your vibe is your tribe. And this is not just like spiritual woowoo stuff. It's absolutely true. So can you talk a little bit about that? So that way we know intentionally what we are doing, because I think a lot of people don't intentionally know this and they're like, “Well, why am I attracting this type of person?” Well, there is actually things that you can do from a branding perspective to orientate yourself, to get the outcome that you want.
00:04:40 Sarah: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, as I said earlier on, your brain is the story that you're telling. Well, there's a subsurface story that we're often telling without realizing it. And it it leaks out in our energy. It leaks out in what we say and how we say it. And a lot of times that stems from how you're feeling internally. So, for example, if someone is, if they're, to be honest, halfway checked out of the work that they are putting out into the world… we see that a lot, We've evolved beyond our work. There's a lot of people that stay stuck in that. And you can sense that disconnect between… that that person has with their work.
00:05:18 Sarah: So that's fundamentally what we are feeling into. Like you have a conversation with a friend and you say, are you doing? And they're like, fine. You're like, okay, well, I picked up on that disconnect. We're doing that on a digital level. We're able to pick up on those when someone is really fully behind something or when they're really feeling what they're sharing.
00:05:43 Gloria: Totally, totally. And the reason why I wanted to record this is that people are saying that it's harder than ever to gain the trust of customers. And so if you do want to weather this trust recession that we are in, you need to be aware of these factors. And so people are smarter than ever. They have the digital space senses. You can tell by just seeing someone's eyes if they light up about their work. And so those are the things. What are some of the… I don't wanna say red flags, but some of the… the signs, very common that you know that someone is not living in alignment with what they really want?
00:06:13 Sarah: Yeah, well, I mean, I think, you know, we mentioned number one, which is the tone and the words don't match. I think you can tell, you can feel into the energy behind something. So you could call that the intention but you can really feel when someone is coming from more proving energy. Everything that they're sharing, it feels like they're trying to prove themselves or that they're trying to push something, push a sale on you, or that they're trying to convince you of something. You can sense into that and it's really subconsciously people are picking up on that. It's not like people are saying, oh, that's coming from proving energy.
00:06:50 Sarah: It's something that just leaks out in the words that you tend to use, the way that… the tone of voice that you're using, just your general energy [inaudible] what you're sharing. And I think that's one real telltale sign. The other is when people feel, when they're coming across as being real and relaxed, and I'm using that word instead of authentic, but I think when it feels like they're just showing up as who they are, that they're not putting on an act – and I use that lightly because nobody says, I'm gonna put on an act to be somebody that I'm not. It's more of a self protective mechanism. But that's one thing where we can pick up on people where they are obviously trying to be somebody that they're not, or as you said, someone that they think they should be.
00:07:40 Sarah: And I think that's one of the things that we pick up on, but the same is true in the opposite, meaning that there's a lot of people who maybe they have some very real beliefs or thoughts around something, but they're holding back. And so when I say, real and relaxed, that also means not guarded. And so I think those are some of the main ways in which I've seen this show up. Of course, there is also the discrepancy of how their values, I know you're really big on values as well, but like how they show up and how they act. It's not what you say your values are, but it comes through in how you treat people, what you prioritize. Your choices, as I say, speak louder than your captions.
00:08:20 Gloria: When you said that, an image just came to mind. And can correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like there's like layers to this. So there's like the tonality, there's the energy of, I like to say expansion versus constriction. And then there's like your values. And I think they all form a picture and the more solid and saturated that picture is, the more clear that picture is. kind of like the gradient, right? And I think about the events that I went to where it's all about empowerment, but then you felt like… there was like a VIP section and a not VIP section. That's not incongruence. Or people who are really friendly and they want to be for everyone, but then they don't really empower you with what you need. They keep it gate kept.
00:08:53 Gloria: So all of those little micro signals now, I just… I think it's a good thing honestly, that customers are not falling for it anymore. And your vibe attracts your tribe because I'm definitely someone who has picked up on on those cues in rooms and it, immediately, like just made me feel like I need to get out of here.
00:09:08 Sarah: Yeah. I mean, that's very… a very visceral feeling, I think, that a lot of people are having.
00:09:12 Gloria: Yeah. I love what you said. So I want to go back to the relaxed feeling because I think we don't really talk about this feeling of relaxation or, as I like to call it, spaciousness. I love spaciousness, right? Spaciousness was my word for last year. I have a word for every year. The word is freedom. But let's talk about relax and spaciousness because I think for so long in the online industry, when you buy from someone, it was really based on authority… authority, credibility, credentials, material identifiers. And I think we're moving into an area where, okay, like that's all fine and good, but now with AI and information not being a precious commodity, it just doesn't work as much anymore. So can you talk to me about this shift?
00:09:50 Gloria: I'll give you examples. If someone's pitching me to be on a podcast and they're listing out all of their credentials, it really kind of irks me. But if I really like someone, I automatically invite them to my podcast. So what is this shift that we're seeing?
00:10:02 Sarah: Well, I mean, I think it's just, again, like the example that you gave, that's proving energy. And so I think it's just feeling like you can be fully present in the moment, that you're not really feeling as though you have to either… I almost see it almost like a figure eight is like your energy and how it flows. So when it's coming out, if it's coming from relaxed, genuine place, it comes freely. You're able to share what you're thinking, how you're thinking. It doesn't have to come out in any particular way. You're not filtering it. You're not trying to make it sound a certain way. And I think that really is part of that ease. You're not feeling like you have to be anyone but you, I think is fundamentally what that is.
10:47 Sarah: But on the flip side, if you're closing that off, if you're either over projecting your energy or just walling off, that's, I think, where some of that disconnect comes from. And it feels really exhausting for us. Early on in my career, if I'm being totally honest, here I was in my 20s having to work with these really big names. And I felt like I didn't have a place at the table. And so I put on this act to be somebody that I thought that I needed to be. And not only was that not met with the best, I guess, reception, but also it was exhausting for me.
00:11:26 Sarah: What I started noticing, for example, was where was I tensing up? Where was I trying to feel like I had to be any way but just how I am? And I think that's what all of this is allowing for us to settle into, which is like, how can I show up in a way that really is true to who I am?
00:11:46 Gloria: Oh, I love that. So we've talked about a lot of these words that are so deep, like in terms of how I relate to them hits home for me. But I think for a lot of people can still be a theory. Like, what does that mean? So how can we bring it down to earth a little bit? I'll give you an example. When I plan my first entrepreneurial experience – I call it experience because it's not a retreat. It's it’s freedom to do whatever I wanted. Again, my word for this year is freedom. You really helped me guide that. And one of the things I asked you was, hey, we're doing a photo shoot, a brand photo shoot. How do I prep them?
00:12:15 Gloria: And you're like, don't talk about what they're going to wear or what they're going to bring. Just ask them, how do I want to feel? How do I want to be in this next iteration of my business? I mean, wow, Sarah, that was mind blowing. So what are some of the tools, some of the language, some of the things that we can do to make sure that we are congruent and that we are flowing inside and outside, that we are… that energy is in in alignment.
00:12:36 Sarah: Yeah, I think first of all, it's just building that awareness around yourself, like checking in with yourself regularly when you show up. How am I feeling about this message that I'm sharing or this piece of content or how am I feeling about this offer that I'm launching or whatever that might be? And just being really honest with yourself first and foremost. And does this still feel truth to me? Does this still feel real to me? Am I behind this, I think, is the first thing that I would say.
00:13:03 Sarah: Because really your job is to get yourself on board first with anything. And so the same with photoshoot, for example. How are you wanting to show up? How do you wanna feel? Use that as your North Star. Not how do you want other people to perceive you. It's shifting that internally. Checking in with yourself, getting yourself on board. I think that's really the biggest point that I want to make here is that it is shifting what we've been conditioned to focus on first, which is the external.
00:13:37 Sarah: Especially in business, we're thinking about how do I make this make sense to other people? Or how do I convey my value to other people? It's up to you first to connect with that for yourself because that is what radiates externally. It really is just fundamentally checking in. Is this true for me? How do I feel about this? If it feels off, start there. That's going to be what fixes everything else that's going to make your message land. And making this not just an occasional thing that you do, but an ongoing thing, making that a practice.
00:14:12 Gloria: That's so good. I love what you said about reaching inwards because I feel like we spend our whole lives reaching outwards to belong, to fit in. So there's literally an image in my head that's like, instead of always grasping, how can we check in? And so I know that you also do hypnotherapy and somatic exercises that helps, but even I'm sure journaling too, right? That would help.
00:14:30 Sarah: Of course. Of course, or even just, yeah, like, how am I feeling right now? I'm about to show up and talk about my work. Just simple practices like that and just developing that ongoing conversation with yourself and focusing there first and knowing that the external is going to land even better once you get the inside right.
00:14:53 Gloria: Totally. So, I mean, I'm living proof of this. So I made my business started off with learning from all the funnel people and the online people. Scale, grow, do this. And I reached all those benchmarks and I was so utterly unhappy. I was a terrible leader. I was cheap, nickel-and-diming people. I didn't show up for people. I was trying to close a sale on a date night with my husband and it just sucked the joy out of everything. And I think it took that journey of me being burnt out, delivering webinars to a thousand people with bandages from my open abdominal surgery – I had a fibroid that needed to be removed, that I started to rewire my own definition of success because everything out there is like grow, grow, grow, grow.
00:15:32 Gloria: And like what grows this much in the natural world year after year? Viruses and cancer and that's it, right? So I think this opportunity when nothing is working gives us an opportunity to really check in and define the new rules for ourselves. And this is what it is because everyone's looking to everyone else. What do I do? What do I do? And if it was one thing that I learned is that my business has never been better. It's never been more profitable, never been more impactful once I just started to ask myself, what is it that I want to do? What kind of business do I want? How do I want to differentiate myself?
00:16:02 Gloria: And that brings me to my next topic, which… what we talked about is… when you talked about values and I think people throw around the word value. Yes, I value inclusion and love and everything's great, but I think that's easy. I think that's cheap. Everyone can do that. For me, it's like, I can know more about your values by what you're willing to reject and call out. And that to me is even more fundamental. So do you have any thoughts around that?
00:16:25 Sarah: Well, I mean, I think our values are such an inherent part of who we are. It's not something you pick off of a laundry list and say, yes, that sounds good. I think, it's… John Demartini talks a lot about values and he talks a lot about how your life basically demonstrates what you value most. And I think that's totally true. If what you value, for example, is being transparent and being forthright, that's what you're going to demonstrate. And that's how you're going to show up.
00:16:53 Sarah: And so we almost can't act, as I'm understanding, in a way that goes against what we truly value because then we're showing up truly out of integrity and that's really taxing on us, obviously. And so I think it really is. You know, it could be, what do you take a stand against? Like, what are you willing to speak out about? But I think, you know, your values, if you want to understand what they really are and get in touch with them, which is so important, it's looking at like, how am I behaving and moving through the world? Because that actually shows you exactly what you value.
00:17:34 Gloria: Totally. And as you said, people can tell regardless because we have these spidey senses. So the time is now to reorientate ourselves and you've given us some tools. Do you have any other practices or questions that we can kind of maintain this clarity that we are living in congruence so that way we can really attract our “Hell yes!” people who are wanting to work with us, wanting to buy from us?
00:17:54 Sarah: Well, I mean, again, I think it's making this a daily practice, making it a thing that we do anytime we put anything out in the world and just checking in with ourselves. Fundamentally, is this true for me now? Am I fully into this? If you're not, then you have your work cut out for you. Like that's where you need to focus your energy. Do I need to change what I'm sharing so that it more fully expresses what I really believe? It really is developing that ongoing relationship with your true self. And when you show up in that congruence, people feel that. They lean in. It doesn't mean that what you say has to be perfectly articulated, by any means. It lands so much more people can feel you. They don't just hear what you say. They feel you. And that changes everything.
00:18:43 Gloria: So would you recommend, like, more personality, more specificity in terms of branding so it's not just in the imagery, but in our copy, in the way that we structure our offers?
00:18:52 Sarah: Again, like I have so many people that come to me and they say, I want to rebrand myself or I want to, you know, strengthen my brands. And most of the work that we end up needing to do is getting abundantly clear on what we believe in our work. Why are we doing what we do? That's where really connecting to our deeper why can come in so handily. But it's really you creating that connection with your own work. And when that happens, then shape your messaging around that, shape your offerings around that truth. I think so many people overlook actually connecting with the deeper parts of what they're doing, why they're doing it.
00:19:35 Sarah: We think we've done that exercise maybe when we first started our business or last season at a retreat or whatever it is, but that's an ongoing thing that we need to do. And that's really fundamentally, I know it's not very sexy, but that's really where all of this comes from. And I've seen people change their entire business, seeing people launch the same program that they've launched 10 times, but when they've connected with that deeper truth in themselves, and what is it that they really wanna say through their work, and what is it that they really wanna be offering, that connection that they have to that, that conviction shines through. And let me tell you that those people have had, even though they've not changed very much about their launch, they've seen a lot more success.
00:20:22 Gloria: That's powerful. So we have a lot of product owners listening to this. And I think a lot of people listening will say, well, I'm not a coach. I make a product. You've worked with Nike, Estee Lauder, Mercedes Benz. So you are very well versed. How does all of this translate to someone who maybe makes a physical product and they're not constantly, showing up on camera?
00:20:40 Sarah: I think with anything, I always think about products. I mean, that really is an extension of you. It's something that you've made, something that you've ideated, something that comes from you. It is an extension of you. And so just making sure that you are connecting with it, maybe why you created that product in the first place. I bet you it came from a really great place. A lot of times we get caught up in the day-to-day of our business, but taking that time to do that, If you are even writing a marketing email or even relaying a marketing email to a VA who's writing that for you, that comes through, I guarantee you, because it's going to shift the conviction that is behind the words that you're sharing.
00:21:24 Gloria: I love it so much. And now with AI, I think a lot of people like to have these binary like, if we use AI, then we're not ourselves. And I use a lot of AI. And I would argue that my message has never resonated more clearly because It's allowed me to just create a more spaciousness for me to ideate and then have AI take the grunt work out of it. So I don't think it's either or. I just think that AI for me has allowed me to just amplify what I'm doing at a larger scale. But I'm interested in hearing from you because I know that you're not… the biggest AI lover, but I want to hear what you think because this is kind of where we're headed. I mean, this is the age that we live in.
00:21:59 Sarah: I love that you're bringing this up. And it's not that I'm not an AI lover. I think I just don't like it when people just spit something out and just it immediately goes out. I found it to be tremendously helpful for me personally, as well as for my clients, because you can really connect more with the heartbeat of what it is that you're putting out, and you can make sense of it for yourself.
00:22:23 Sarah: That's so hard, by the way, when our work is an extension of us be that a product or an offer, whatever that is, it's so hard to have that level of insight, that objectivity, that distance that you need. I feel like you can do that so much more quickly using AI, having conversations about your work and getting clear on it again for yourself. That I feel like it's tremendously helpful. And so maybe it's using it in a very slightly different way, but it is, oh my gosh, it's using it. I live on ChatGPT for that reason with my clients.
00:23:01 Sarah: I mean, once you get clear, sure, have it create the content. I feel like the meaning, the essence, the heart in it is still there. But I think it's when we just say, I want you to write five marketing messages for me. That's where that's where it loses the heartbeat that it needs to really land with people these days.
00:23:27 Gloria: Yeah, the ideation needs to come from us, but it doesn't mean that we can't use these tools. And like Oprah says, the intention will dictate the outcome. And so this is kind of a full circle moment. What I love is throughout all of this, through the volatility and the markets and what's happening in the world, this upheaval, it's really just bringing us back to the basics of the core of what we want. And it's never been a better time for us to do something different. So this has been a very affirming conversation, one that has really been the through line of what I've been going through as well. And I think that's why the universe brought us together and why I'm so happy that you're here. Is there anything you want to leave our audience with?
00:24:03 Sarah: I think it's really just you first. I want you to think about that like you first. How do you feel? What do you want? We're never told this. We're told that that it's selfish. It's not. Not in this case. So think about that. You first. Because everything else comes from that place.
00:24:24 Gloria: So good. Where can people find you, Sarah?
00:24:25 Sarah: You can find me on Instagram. You can find me on my website, sarahashman.com. You can find my studio through that as well. So that might be the easiest way to find me.
00:24:37 Gloria: Thank you so much for having this conversation with me. You're like my branding secret weapon. You're just tapped into something so much deeper. I mean, this conversation is just the tip of the iceberg, but definitely get into Sarah's world. You're so humble, by the way, about your unique gifts and anyone who meets you knows that you are in a category of your own. So I'm just so happy that we met and I love your energy and thank you for doing you and encouraging other people to be more of themselves.
00:25:02 Sarah: Thank you so much. Really, really honored. Thank you.
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