Episode 199: How to Get Your Product into Retail Stores and Wholesale Accounts w/ Katie Hunt
In this episode of the Gloria Chou PR Podcast, I sit down with Katie Hunt, founder and CEO of Proof to Product and host of the Proof to Product Podcast. Katie has helped tens of thousands of product-based business owners land wholesale deals with retailers like Anthropologie, Target, and The Container Store—without relying on paid ads or flashy trade shows.
Whether you’re selling candles on Etsy or bath and body products from your kitchen, this episode is your go-to guide for getting started with wholesale.
How to Know If You’re Ready for Wholesale
Katie breaks down what really makes a product “wholesale-ready”—from pricing and inventory to minimum order quantities and production methods. Spoiler: You don’t need 15,000 units in stock to get started
Pricing for Profit (Not Panic)
Katie shares why underpricing is a red flag to buyers and what the term “keystone pricing” really means. If you’ve ever been confused about wholesale vs. retail margins, this part is a must-listen.
The Pitch Process That Gets Buyers to Say YES
Pitching wholesale buyers is a lot like pitching the media. Katie walks us through:
How to find the right buyers (hint: use LinkedIn, social, and direct mail)
Why cold pitching still works—and what to say
What not to do (like showing up unannounced at a shop!)
Why PR and Social Proof Still Matter in Wholesale
While emotional storytelling matters more in DTC, wholesale buyers still look for credibility. Katie explains how PR features, retail testimonials, and even just having your ducks in a row can help build buyer trust.
Real Talk: It Can Take Time—But It's Worth It
Katie shares how one wholesale buyer took four years to finally place an order—and why persistence, visibility, and relationship-building paid off.
Success Story Spotlight: Alex from Shake On The A
Katie highlights the journey of a client who went from making greeting cards on her kitchen table to building a multi-million-dollar brand in 3,500+ stores.
Final Takeaway
Don’t let fear or lack of knowledge stop you from going after wholesale. As Katie says, “If you don’t go to the tryout, you’re telling yourself no.”
✅ Know your pricing
✅ Build relationships
✅ Use systems (Katie teaches them!)
✅ Hit send—even if you’re scared
If you want to see your products on store shelves, this episode is your first step.
Resources Mentioned:
Join the PR Secrets Masterclass
Join the Small Biz PR Pros Facebook Group
DM the word “PITCH” to us on Instagram to get a pitching freebie https://www.instagram.com/gloriachoupr
Connect with Gloria Chou on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gloriaychou
Join Gloria Chou's PR Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/428633254951941
Learn more about Katie Hunt:
https://www.prooftoproduct.com/podcast
Get the Free Private Podcast: "8 Questions to Know If You’re Ready for Wholesale" — https://www.prooftoproduct.com/privatepod
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/prooftoproduct
Additional Resources:
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TRANsCRIPT
00:00:00 Gloria: What's up, small business heroes? Welcome back to Small Business PR, where we make PR and marketing super accessible for the everyday small business hero. Now, have you ever thought about getting your products into the shelves of stores like Anthropologie, The Container Store, Target? Well, today's episode is just for you. I'm so excited to have my friend and a wholesale expert, Katie Hunt, who is also the host of Proof to Product podcast, a podcast I have been on, and she's also the CEO of Proof to Product, helping tens of thousands of product owners get onto shelves, talk all about wholesale.
00:00:29 Gloria: So, this one is going to be one that you're probably going to want to come back to. We drop a lot of information and obviously getting into wholesale is a big topic, but today we'll get you started with the 101 of how do you know if you're ready for wholesale, what are the highlight tips of how you can position yourself so that those stores will actually want to entertain your pitch and then also the steps to get there.
00:00:49 Gloria: So, I'm so excited to have Katie on. Welcome to the show.
00:00:52 Katie: Thanks so much for having me, Gloria. I'm excited to be here and chat with you about this.
00:00:52 Gloria: I love how it was like a tongue proof to proof product. People will definitely remember it. Tell us just really quickly for people who don't really understand this, what is wholesale and how do we know if we're ready for wholesale?
00:01:05 Katie: Wholesale is basically where you sell your products to another business? Most people think of direct to consumer sales where you're selling your product to the end consumer, the person that's going to use it or gift it. Those two options are typically the most common. But when we talk about selling wholesale, we're selling our product in bulk to another business who is then turning around and selling it to the end consumer.
00:01:27 Katie: And so this could be brick and mortar retailers, this could be big box retailers, this could be online retailers. It really kind of runs the gamut, but essentially what you're doing is it's a different revenue stream and it requires a different sales process, different pricing mechanisms and the gamut. But it can be really lucrative for folks because you're selling in bulk. You're not just selling one by one. You're selling in larger quantities,
00:01:49 Gloria: Right? It could be a total game changer if you do have the inventory. For example, if you're selling candles on Etsy or personalized mugs, how do you know, okay, I'm ready. This is the year. I'm going to go for it.
00:01:59 Katie: It's not just a one thing like check this box and you're ready to roll. I do want to tell your listeners, we do have a free private podcast that talks you through like here's eight questions to ask yourself to know if you're ready. And they can get access to that at prooftoproduct.com/privatepod. It's super easy to consume in less than an hour and it'll give them a taste of what it is that they need to think about.
00:02:17 Katie: But really there's a lot of factors. One, is your product priced right so that you can still be profitable when you're selling wholesale? That's a big one. I don't want anyone selling anything if they're not making money on it. But also you mentioned inventory being a challenge and it is expected that if you're selling wholesale that you will carry inventory. So for that candlemaker on Etsy like you're talking about, do they have the capabilities to stock up and have things there that they can send out in larger quantities?
00:02:42 Katie: Now, if we're talking like a Target or like a huge big box store, that's going to be its own order. You don't need to keep 15,000 units on hand, but you do want to have some smaller quantities on hand that you can get orders out pretty quickly for your independent retailers. Having enough inventory on hand, but really the profitability piece is the biggest one. I want to know that they have their production cost held in. They know their pricing is right and it's in alignment with industry standards. Because otherwise if we don't have those pieces in place, then we're just kind of playing business. We're losing money on the deal and we don't want to do that.
00:03:14 Gloria: So I think that's really the key of what I want to talk about. But in terms of inventory, 15,000 is a large number. What is the minimum amount that people should think about when they're ready?
00:03:23 Katie: Yeah. So, this is one of the most popular questions we get in our paper camp program, which is our wholesale program. How much inventory do I need to have on hand? And it will vary depending on what types of products you carry. So, there's this thing called minimum order quantity. And stores will have to purchase a certain number of each individual skew. So, if you make a whole candle collection, and let's pretend you have 10 different scents. To purchase one of those scents, they're typically going to need to purchase in quantities of six or even 12. Every brand is slightly different in what they set their MOQ, their minimum order quantity at.
00:03:55 Katie: So that being said, let's pretend that your minimum order quantity on candles is six just for easy numbers. I would say having enough for 10 orders on hand would be really helpful. So that would be 60 candles of that particular scent that you want to have on hand. Now we need to extrapolate that over multiple skews if you have a larger collection. And so, it is a tough balance between cash flow and space that you need to store this product.
00:04:19 Katie: And everyone's going to look a little different in terms of how much they keep on hand. It also depends too on how they produce their products. If somebody is hand pouring that candle in their studio and they have the ability to get things turned around pretty quickly because it's more like in-house rather than outsourced, they may keep fewer pieces on hand and just make it on demand and build up their stock as they go.
00:04:42 Katie: Whereas, if somebody's manufacturing outside and they're outsourcing that, they are going to have to order in larger quantities to make the price per piece what they want. So, it gets a little nuanced there and I can't say, “Oh you need to keep x amount on hand," because again every product category is going to have that different MOQ. But how they produce it is going to affect how much they keep on hand too.
00:05:01 Gloria: Do you usually recommend that people when they are pitching have a bundle of multiple products or you start with one?
00:05:07 Katie: No, I want them to have a collection. Because the truth of the matter is buyers are not going to purchase everything that we are selling. So, a brick and mortar retail store is not going to open your catalog and say, "Yep, give me everything. I want it all." They're going to pick and choose to fit what their end consumer is looking for. And if you don't have enough product, if you don't have a substantial collection of product, they may pass until you have more skews to choose from.
00:05:34 Katie: I go into some of the numbers in our paper camp program, but I typically want a buyer to be able to choose a quarter of your offerings and still hit your opening order requirements. I know this is a lot of jargon, wholesale jargon, but they do have to spend a certain dollar amount with you to place that wholesale order. We don't want people placing personal orders for things. We don't want them just buying one or two of something. They're having to spend a significant amount of money with you and they're having to order your product in bulk. And all of these are the guardrails. These are terms and conditions that we set to create guard rails for the deals that we're doing and set expectations for everybody so we're all on the same page.
00:06:09 Gloria: So, you're saying that we do have the right as product owners to set those guardrails. There's not like an industry standard.
00:06:15 Katie: There are some industry standards that you want to follow, but really ultimately it's up to your brand to set your terms and conditions to what you need. So again, going back to that profitability, I want to make sure the individual product price is right, but also your MOQ that we talked about is right and also that opening order amount. Those are the key components there.
00:06:32 Katie: And most people will start at the industry standard for those, but as they get more experienced, as they see their sales data, they may increase their opening order amount because that's what the market's demanding. So, they have flexibility within that. But most people do start within the confines, so to speak, of industry standards and then make shifts as they have more data points to lean on.
00:06:52 Gloria: Yeah, I definitely do want to talk about the ins and outs of those numbers. But first things first, how do we even get on the wholesaler's attention? How do we even know out of all the things I make, what's going to be the one or two or three?
00:07:02 Katie: Well, you're going to show them everything. It's a lot of very similar mechanics that you teach for PR. We're doing cold pitches. We're creating relationships with the store owners. We're doing our homework to figure out which types of stores are the best fit for our products.
00:07:15 Katie: We're looking at what other brands are carried on the shelves of these stores and thinking, okay, that customer that buys that other brand, would they be buying my brand too? Like where do we find complimentary brands and where are they being sold? Let's go look at that. So it's a lot of digging, it's a lot of research. And then having those terms and conditions set gives us our talking points for when we're pitching them. Because again, remember at the beginning I said it's a very different sales process.
00:07:39 Katie: When we're selling direct to consumer, we're leaning on the emotional side of purchasing. We're thinking about who's using this product. How does it make them feel? What kind of problem does it solve? On the B2B side, when we're selling to another business, they're thinking, what is my shelf space? How much money am I gonna have to spend? What's my cashflow looking like in terms of other orders I have coming in? So their mindset around purchasing is a lot different.
00:08:01 Katie: And so when we do our pitch to them, we're including hard details about like, here's how much you have to spend with me. Here's how many skews you need to purchase to hit that number. Here's the types of things we sell. Here's where you can find all of our stuff and look at our catalog. We want to make it as simple as possible for these wholesale customers to purchase from us. And part of that is laying out the pricing details too.
00:08:22 Gloria: Yeah. Let's say I make bath and body stuff, and I'm trying to get into a store that already has bath and body stuff. Am I looking for things that are not competitive or things that are just maybe they sell the same thing, but I have a different fragrance or maybe something that's evergreen. So I want scents for all year round, not just for spring and summer.
00:08:38 Katie: Oh, yeah. Evergreen products like year round products are fantastic because they can be sold all the time. I would say it's a mix. You want to be around complimentary, but non-competing products. So if that bath and body product is the same as yours, same types of scents, the store owner is probably going to pass on your line because it's too similar. If you can point out areas that you are different and how it would still benefit their end consumer, they may take a chance on you.
00:09:02 Katie: Most independent stores won't just choose like one bath and body type brand and carry that. They might select a few or they may purchase hand creams from one brand and face masks from the other. So it's always worth reaching out. The worst that they can do is say no or just not respond. But I do think that, if something's working in a store, then the retailer wants more of that, maybe in just a different fashion.
00:09:25 Gloria: Hmm So in terms of doing our research, thinking about the end consumer, so would it be like, if I go to Anthropologie, then you know that it's more like hippie folk and sustainable. So, is that kind of the way that I should be thinking about when doing more research?
00:09:36 Katie: Yeah, you definitely want to think about your end consumer. You want to think about where do they shop. I always like to do the client avatar type thing of like, okay, who's my core customer? Where are they shopping? What types of stores are they visiting? And then also what kind of brands are they shopping from? And if you know what other kinds of brands are shopping from, you can look at their websites and see who they're wholesaling to. And that'll give you a sense of some stores that might be a good fit for your products too.
00:10:00 Katie: And then too, just getting to know the stores too, following them, looking at their socials, building that relationship is key because especially nowadays when budgets are tight, the shop owners are turning to brands that they know deliver on their promises, that have good sell-through rates, that they can call in a pinch if they run short on something. So having those relationships is really key too.
00:10:20 Gloria: Would you say that they're looking for people with track record? So you have to show that you've already sold independently X amount of units or maybe that you've been featured somewhere with PR. Would that help the decision making?
00:10:30 Katie: I do think it helps. But I don't think it's the only criteria. I know it's not the only criteria that shops look for. In fact, a lot of the independent shops in particular love finding new brands. They love seeing innovative products or really cool branding. They love to support the small businesses that are independent too. So I do think having some press and a track record and being able to say that you're carried in a certain number of stores is really great.
00:10:54 Katie: But also don't make that a hindrance from putting yourself out there. Again, I talk to a lot of buyers day in and day out, and they enjoy supporting small brands. They just want to know that you have your ducks in a row. So going back to the like, money talk earlier, they want to know that you're priced right, you're meeting industry standards, that you'll deliver on your promises that you make to them, and really that everything will arrive on time and safe and sound. Those are some of the key things they're looking for.
00:11:18 Gloria: When you talk about industry standards, do you mean by like eco-friendly, non-toxic, like that kind of industry standard?
00:11:24 Katie: I mean more along the lines of pricing and quantities and with the invention of Faire, which I know it's been around a long time now, but there's more people flooding the wholesale market as sellers. And frankly, they are not meeting industry standards. Some of them have no minimums, low minimums. They don't have any quantity requirements. And those are red flags to the buyers. It makes the buyers go, hold on a minute. Do they have experience wholesaling? Are they going to get me my stuff on time? Is it going to be packaged well? Is this priced right?
00:11:53 Katie: If they see that you're meeting industry standards around some of the terms and conditions, the price mechanisms, things like that, it builds their confidence that says, okay, they know what they're doing and they're going to get me their product on time and it'll be good.
00:12:07 Gloria: Let's talk about the pricing mechanism. What is a green flag for a wholesaler to be like, yes, this person knows their stuff.
00:12:14 Katie: Priced in line with the industry. So for example, I saw somebody on Threads a couple of weeks back where they were talking about they're in like 10,000 stores or something incredible. And I'm sure they have a lot of really valuable rich experience given that they sell to so many stores. But when I went and look at their website, they were priced 38% under market.
00:12:32 Katie: So, it wasn't surprising to me that they had so many stores because they were pricing themselves below market. They were like undercutting everyone else on the market, which made me think, are they profitable? Is this brand making money as they're selling this product? But stores know kind of roughly what candles sell for, what certain body products sell for. Obviously there's like the more mass market industry standards, and then there's like luxury standards that are a little bit different.
00:12:57 Katie: But if you're gonna see a mass market product and it's priced 38% below market, that's a red flag for some of them. Some of them will take a chance on it and be like, well, I hope it works out, because I'll make better margins on it. But um they notice that. They know when somebody is significantly below or significantly higher than what they should be on the pricing spectrum. And that's gonna vary from product to product. So everyone listening right now really just needs to understand what is kind of the standard retail rate.
00:13:24 Katie: And by that, you do your homework and look at other brands that have similar types of product. But again, consider, am I more of a mass market product or am I in a specialty category that might warrant a higher price point?
00:13:34 Gloria: Hmm, Okay. So that's really interesting. I haven't thought about that. What about in terms of the percentage that you give to the wholesalers? What is a good split?
00:13:41 Katie: You don't give them a percent. What you do is you set your wholesale price and then they are going to mark it up to their retail price. Now, Keystone is a word in our industry that most folks should be aware of. That means doubling the wholesale price to get to retail. It's a little outdated right now. There's a lot of stores that are doing more than double. So if I set a product price, my wholesale price is $10, for example. The minimum someone will sell that product for in their brick and mortar or online is $20.
00:14:07 Katie: But we are seeing that more and more people are marking things up higher than that. Even as far as like 2.6, 2.8, it kind of depends on where they're located and what their customer base will spend.
00:14:19 Gloria: So you said at least double. So for example, if the retail price is $20, then the wholesale price should be $10 to the wholesaler.
00:14:27 Katie: Yes, but I want us to flip our thinking on this because the brands are setting the wholesale price, they're not setting the retail. So a lot of people talk about it, like you just talked about it.
00:14:35 Katie: If the retail price is $20, wholesale should be 10. And really what we need to do is work the other way around. Like wholesale is $10, and so the retail is going to be at minimum $20 but a lot of stores are going to make it 25 or 28, depending on what their customers will warrant.
00:14:49 Gloria: Hmm, okay, interesting. We don't set that, right? We just say, "This is what my wholesale price is." And then it's up to Target or whatever container store to decide what they want to market up as.
00:14:59 Katie: Yeah, and the big box stores are different because they're going to have profit margin requirements that they need to hit. So you'll discuss that in the whole deal before they write the PO to you. But yeah, you're going to set that wholesale price and then they're going to set the retail price for the big box stores. You're going to have some negotiation on that too during the process.
00:15:16 Gloria: What are some do's and don'ts if I'm pitching? First of all, how do we even find who to pitch for? Do I go on LinkedIn? I'm looking at like, buyer of Target.
00:15:23 Katie: Yeah, I'm sure it's similar to how you're encouraging folks to pitch the press. We're digging around LinkedIn, we're digging around Facebook pages for brick and mortar shops. We're using AI tools, seamless AI is one that folks are using. just to be able to track down who the right person is. With independent shops, it's a lot easier because there typically is smaller pool of people in that business, it's typically the owner who's doing the buying. For the big box stores, it's a little more complicated because there's so many different departments and different teams that do the buying. It's a lot of digging and try to figure it out.
00:15:53 Gloria: So then you kind of cold pitch. There's not like a formula. So the pitch should just have who you are and then just send them like a brochure of all the skews
00:16:01 Katie: Yeah, we have a whole pitch process that we give people in our program where we give them the timeline, we give them the templates. But ultimately, yeah, it's a series of cold pitch emails we's we have in there too, like direct marketing mailers, like postcards that have product images and quick facts that they need to know to purchase. We have some people that are sending out samples and catalogs in the mail too. It's a combination of touch points, similar to what you teach in PR, we want to contact people in different ways. Emails, obviously free and easy, but we oftentimes don't hear back to you on the cold pitches. So, again, working in some of these other touch points, social media, direct mail. We meet a lot of people at trade shows, but there's multiple ways to do it. But the most successful, easy to systemize way is a mix of cold pitch emails, sending some direct mail, some cold pitch follow-ups after that too.
00:16:46 Gloria: Are there any don'ts?
00:16:48 Katie: Never walk into a store unannounced and expect to talk to the buyer. We see a lot of folks who walk in, with samples and catalogs and things and, like...people are busy. Imagine somebody showing up at your front door wanting to sell you something. It's awkward, right? And also the person working in the shop may not be the decision maker around buying. And so it's okay to drop off a sample with a note or something for the buyer and say, "Hey, can you give this to the person in charge of buying?" But never just show up unannounced. I think that's the biggest mistake I see folks do. Another don't is that people give up too early in my opinion, they send a couple of emails. They don't hear anything back and they think, "Oh my gosh, I'm a failure. Nobody likes my stuff. My products are terrible." And in reality, they're busy. So a couple of touch points won't do it. Again, having other ways to reach them - social, commenting on their stuff, sending direct mail. We obviously don't want to be a stalker here, but we also want to build that relationship and, having multiple ways to do that so that we continue to stay on their radar is the best way to do that.
00:17:46 Gloria: So PR features you said would help? What about like customer testimonials, a ton of reviews?
00:17:51 Katie: Yeah, those are always great. People always - especially if it's a wholesale testimonial.. it exudes confidence.
00:17:57 Gloria: Awesome. What if you have some famous brand partners or if you had anything else to help you, give you that leverage?
00:18:03 Katie: I find that the ambassadors, influencers, the higher end brand partners tend to help on the direct to consumer side more than they do on the wholesale side. Because again, these brand partners are influencing the emotions behind it, the problems the products are solving. So it really does lend itself well to direct to consumer marketing. But at the same time too, that heightens the awareness and visibility of your brand overall. And if you have that heightened awareness and visibility, other businesses are going to see that too and they may want to purchase from me then.
00:18:30 Gloria: Yeah, I always say, everything we want in our business is on the other side of the send button. So same thing that we are teaching with PR. Any last few words about pricing or anything to set our listeners up for success?
00:21:57 Katie: We have a ton of resources on our podcast and everything. And I teach a four week program on this. We can't cover all of it in just a short episode like this, but I do want to encourage folks, don't let your fear of rejection hold you back. If you have a desire to work with stores and sell wholesale, come listen to our stuff, learn from us because there is a system, there is a method to the madness and we can make it very simple for you to get started quickly. I was just talking to my daughter the other day, she's going out for a new club soccer team, she's already on one and I said, "Look, if you don't go to the tryout, you're telling yourself a no. Rather than going out and letting them tell you yes or no."
00:19:14 Katie: I'm telling clients the same. If we're not putting ourselves out there, if we're not trying to do these things, then we're cutting off opportunities for ourselves. And so for anyone listening, if you have a desire to see your products on the shelves of stores, go after it. Even start locally and just connect with the buyer that you feel your stuff would be a good fit for their shop. Don't be deterred by the no's. Don't be deterred by the crickets you may hear when you pitch. People are still paying attention. They're watching. They will come around and buy. I had a wholesale customer who waited four years. They kept seeing me at trade shows and kept talking to me. They visit the booth. They liked the product. They were very complimentary. I'd follow up in between.
00:19:51 Katie: I really worked hard for that account and it took four years for them to finally purchase from me. And really what it was in that scenario, they just wanted to see that I was going to be around, that I was going to continue developing my product line. But I just say that as a cautionary tale of like good things take time. So don't be deterred if this is something you want to do. Get the support you need, find the support and get going. Go after your dreams.
00:20:12 Gloria: Do you have one really amazing success story of someone who just transformed their business and life by going straight to wholesale?
00:20:18 Katie: A lot of my clients primarily sell wholesale now. Many of them came in trying to do both and then when they learned the mechanics of wholesale, they switched over and were like, "Okay, I'm 95% wholesale now." Alex from Shake On The A is a really incredible brand. She came when she was like a baby business working off of her kitchen table doing primarily stationary and greeting cards. And now she has a line of 3000 SKUs. She does bath and body stuff. She does wellness and healthcare stuff. She does hardware like rocks, glasses, and things like that. She still has desktop products and stationary goods. But she's in over 3,500 stores. Her business is doing multi-million dollars in revenue every year. She's incredible. So go look her up if you're looking for some inspiration.
00:20:58 Gloria: That's great. So how can people find you and get some more free resources to kind of start this journey?
00:21:03 Katie: Two things. One, listen to our podcast. It's called Proof to Product and we're on episode 390 at this point. So there's a lot of great free information there. It's Proof to Product and we're on all the platforms. The other thing, if you are serious about getting started with wholesale and you're wondering, "Is this right for me?" Then I want you to go listen to our private podcast where I break it down for you and give you concrete things that you can do right away to get started. So that's at prooftoproduct.com/privatepod, P-O-D at the end.
00:21:30 Gloria: Thank you so much, Katie. We're going to have to have you back. It's such a complex but really awesome topic and there's so much to it. But you've definitely given us so much to think about, at least thinking about the win, what, just kind of the nuts and bolts so I really appreciate you being on here.
00:21:42 Katie: Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad this was helpful for your audience.
00:21:46 Gloria: Thank you.
00:21:48 Gloria: Hey, small business hero, did you know that you can get featured for free on outlets like Forbes, the New York Times, Marie Claire, PopSugar, and so many more, even if you're not yet launched or if you don't have any connections? That's right. That's why I invite you to watch my PR secrets masterclass, where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought after industry expert.
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