Episode 71-How to Pitch Using Media and Build Community Connection with Izolda Trakhtenberg
What's the PR secret to landing that media feature you've always aspired for?
Hint—it does not involve rocket science or complicated marketing activities.
Don't be surprised! Many small business founders still overlook this critical aspect of their enterprise.
That's because when they pitch before journalists or get on a podcast, they're all too concerned about how they can promote their selves or their businesses.
But if you flip the script and follow the unconventional yet proven approaches as we do here in the Small Business PR Podcast, you'll soon realize that PR is not all about you!
By realizing that insight, you'll discover the secret to landing that sought-after media feature is about providing value to the journalist's audience.
Now, the question is, how can you articulate in your pitch the value you bring to the journalist's audience?
The answer?
You must be credible, provide a unique point of view, and be relevant.
In short, it's the CPR method. You can follow it as thousands of bootstrappers in our community did. Now, they're getting the recognition they deserve. And they did it without being pushy in their PR pitch.
That's what you'll discover exactly in this episode with our podcast guest, Izolda Trakhtenberg. She'll reveal how the CPR method works as a self-perpetuating cycle to help build your credibility and advance your unique point of view.
"If you're just another person who's going, 'I want to be on podcasts.' That's lovely. But unless you have a point of view and a perspective, like the CPR method. Unless you have a perspective that's relevant to my audience, it's not as exciting for me to have you on the show. You need to want to bring value to my audience."
-Izolda Trakhtenberg
Izolda Trakhtenberg is a speaker, workshop facilitator, author, and coach who specializes in helping people and companies create, innovate, and collaborate mindfully. She hosts the Innovative Mindset Podcast and has interviewed top industry leaders, artists, and Grammy Award winners.
Pitch like a pro and build community connections using the CPR Method. Tune in to this episode to see for yourself how you can genuinely provide value to the journalist's audience. By doing that, you'll soon get the recognition you deserve.
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
Why pitching for PR is all about the right timing
The brutal PR truth you should know before getting on a podcast
How to make people listen to you through the CPR method
The contents that matter most in creating your pitch
Expert insights on why small business founders should get on a podcast
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachou.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Join Gloria Chou's PR Community: Small Biz Pros: By Gloria Chou
Follow Izolda Trakhtenberg on Instagram: @izoldat
Connect with Izolda Trakhtenberg on LinkedIn: Izolda Trakhtenberg
Follow Izolda Trakhtenberg on Twitter: IzoldaT
Visit Izolda Trakhtenberg's official website: https://izoldat.com
Additional Resources:
Join the Small Biz PR Pros FB group
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Here’s a glance at this episode…
[3:48] Knowing who you are and what you can bring to the table, whether it's timely or not, is very important to me when I'm getting your pitch.
[05:36] Bear in mind, though a lot of podcasters are many months ahead. So, you want to plan out your year. You want to be sure that if you're going to be hitting up podcasts, that you look and see how far ahead they are, and you can pitch early.
[12:05] If you're bringing 80% for yourself, that's not interesting to my audience; they may or may not be interested in what this person is selling. So, I'm not airing the episode. That's it's in my paperwork that if this content isn't good for my audience, I don't have to air it.
[13:13] I would rather see a really concise, clean pitch that will be a value to my audience than to see your press kit. Because often unless you give it to me perfectly. It's not useful to me. So, your press sheet is lovely if I want to see extra information, but the pitch itself is most important.
[21:41] I really want to encourage people; if you know what you're trying to do, if you know who you're trying to serve, if you have a unique point of view, and you have that credibility, now's the time to pitch podcasts. Now's the time to really get out there and do it in a way that's going to work for both of you.
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Izolda Trakhtenberg 0:00
I'm going to be very honest here. If you're just another person who's going, I want to be on podcasts. That's lovely. But unless you have a point of view and a perspective, like your CPR method, Gloria, unless you have a perspective that's relevant to my audience, it's not as exciting for me to have you on the show.
Gloria Chou 0:21
Hey, my friend, I'm Gloria Chow. And this is the Small Business PR podcast, your go to place for inspiration and proven strategies to help you go from unknown to being seen, heard and valued. Every week, I will reveal the latest insights and actionable steps you can take to become the most confident, visible and impactful entrepreneur you can do one pitch at a time. Let's get started.
Gloria Chou 0:49
What's up everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Small Business PR Podcast. Today I have Zola Trachtenberg. She is a former NASA expert trainer, host of the innovative mindset podcast. And she's interviewed top experts such as John Lee Dumas, Grammy Award winners, artists, leaders, and she's going to talk to us about how she pitches and uses media to build community connection and inspire. So welcome to the show.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 1:13
Thank you so much for having me glory. This is fantastic.
Gloria Chou 1:16
So before we get into kind of what we're going to talk about, I just want to ask you, how many pitches Do you think you've received? Total, like in the lifetime of your podcast?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 1:25
1000s 1000s 1000s. I'm getting about 25 to 30 pitches every single day.
Gloria Chou 1:31
Wow. Okay, so I'm so happy you're on here, because so many people listening to this podcast, want to be you know, on a podcast, right? And you've actually you're on the other side of the inbox. So you're the one that picks who gets in and who get who doesn't. So I want to just quickly ask you, what are your favorite types of pitches? And then we can go into like the do's and don'ts.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 1:51
Ah, wow, my favorite types of pitches are people who are doing what I'm interested in talking about, right? So if you are someone who's working in environmentalism, if you are someone who's working in the creative field, if you want to change the world through innovation, ethical innovation, I want to hear from you. If you're not if you're someone who for example, is into say hunting, which is antithetical to what I do. There's, I've had hunters tried to tell me, No, no, I'm pro environment. And I went, Oh, no, you're not. So someone who has done the research to find out what my podcast is about. And even listen to an episode or two just to see whether or not we'd be a good fit before they even pitch me is the kind of person I want to hear from.
Gloria Chou 2:37
Yeah, and by the way, if anyone's listening is also is an environmentalist, and she's an animal lover and a vegan, so do not pitch her if you are selling leather bags. Or if you love to eat meat. That's one of the things I talk about all the time is you don't you never want to pitch like a beauty editor or, you know, a fashion editor who's vegan, like your leather bag, right? So it's just going that one step further. So okay, so no hunters, and you talked about your favorite types of guests. I love it. It's just true.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 3:04
So honest, you know, it's it's also somebody who, you know, like, if you're trying to do timed media, I, it really needs to be timely, right? It needs to be something that's relevant to right now, for my show, I have some of that content is very timely, and a lot of it is evergreen. So even if you're doing an evergreen pitch, I might be interested, if the subject matter is something that I'm already really curious about. And some people are doing emergent technology, for example, so NF T's crypto, all of that is very important to anyone who's creative right now. So someone who's an expert on NF TS who pitches me, that's very timely, but it will also be evergreen, because crypto isn't going anywhere. And if T's aren't going anywhere, so knowing who you are, and what you can bring to the table, whether it's timely or not, is very important to me when I'm getting your pitch.
Gloria Chou 3:58
Well, 100% and I know you know this because you're also in our community appear starter pack community. And you've seen this kind of the CPR method that and R stands for relevance. So you've already talked about how relevance is so important, but it could also be up and coming news stories are kind of riding on the coattails of something like like a crypto right? What are some other ways? What about like data, like using a survey or giving you something that's original, like, Hey, I surveyed my audience, here's the data would that be interesting to you?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 4:24
It absolutely would, again, provided the subject matter is something that I'm already working on. So for example, I just recently interviewed the CEO of electric bikes, who they're owned by track and they're all about electric bicycles. And that part is cool, of course, but the part that's really cool for me is that they were looking at how many pounds of plastic we have in the oceans. And they went you know, we're gonna do something about this. So when they gave me the data, it wasn't just the again, it wasn't just that this is the number of pounds of plastic there are in the oceans. They went a step further and when and this is what we've done about it. They have this new little basket that they've made that is made out of one pound of reclaimed ocean plastic, which to me is fabulous, because it's a really amazing way that they are looking to save the oceans. They use data to hook me. But then they went a step further and made sure that they were relevant in their data to what I'm already doing.
Gloria Chou 5:17
I love that. So can you give me another example? What about, for example, Earth Day is coming up? Would that be relevant?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 5:24
Of course, absolutely. If you're doing something for Earth Day that you want to talk about, that, again, is relevant to my thing. You can do it, various holidays, any kind of occasions that are marked. Bear in mind, though a lot of podcasters are many months ahead, right. So if you pitch me today, your interview wouldn't go up until June or July at the earliest, because I'm several months ahead in my interviews. So you want to plan out your year, you want to be sure that if you're going to be hitting up podcasts, that you look and see how far ahead they are, and you can pitch early, but then get on later, depending on what you're trying to pitch. But if you try and pitch too late, like if somebody wanted to pitch me first day now, everybody's all set up unless it was the you know, unless it was Dr. Jane Goodall, who came to me and said, You know, I'd really like to be on your podcast. I'd be like, Yeah, of course, I'll rearrange. But most of the time, unless you're someone who's really big in the community that I'm serving, I can't rearrange. Because I've already promised those dates to the people I've promised them to. But if Jane Goodall or somebody like her, Damien Vander came, came to me and said, I want to be on your show for Earth Day. Yeah, I would. But I'll be very honest, most of the time, it's set in stone. And the next time you could get on my show, would be around July 4. So if you've got an Independence Day thing that you wanted to pitch me that has something to do with my show. Absolutely. Other than that, again, know your do your research, know your podcast, or who you want to pitch beforehand. And you'll be able to do a lot of that kind of homework and be very well prepared, both for the pitch and eventually the podcast.
Gloria Chou 7:00
Yeah, and wouldn't you say that the more episodes that a podcast has meaning, the more experience that the podcast host has, the more likely it is that they're going to already batch a lot of episodes, right? It's like someone like you, you've been doing this for a while. So then basically, for me, I would, I would know that you're already six months in advance. I mean, is that like true for all podcasts or just more like more expert podcasters.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 7:22
I don't know if it's true for all podcasters. I don't want to speak for all podcasters. But I know that what happens is, this is what happens with a lot of podcasters. Once you start really narrowing down your focus, you end up with an audience that is you know, they're just excited for your new content, which is flattering and wonderful. But it also means that the PR folks, they actually discover you and they go, Oh, this is someone who's putting out podcasts consistently, they're good podcasts, I'm gonna start pitching them. And so what happens with these 2530 pitches that I get a day is that then I have to wade through them all, you know, and go, which ones are actually relevant to me, which ones are people that I want to have on my show? So when I'm in that space, I have to work out my schedule in advance if you're a relatively new podcaster, unless your podcast has exploded, generally, you're still going week to week. So as you gain more experience, you're going to start patching, you're gonna start doing series of podcasts, right? So I'll go last June, for example was environmentalists only? That's what I did. I did a series of four environments like Captain Paul Watson, who's co founded Greenpeace, right? So so people like that, yeah, I do. I batch those episodes together, I recorded them together so that we were able to have this beautiful common thread. If I were a newer podcast, I might not have had that many guests. So I might not have been batching. But for my solo shows, I also batch right, so I'm doing a series right now. All about how to work with booking agents, right? What do you need to know? There's this great resignation, right? So everybody's leaving to go do something they've always wanted to do. And they have to start working with talent agents, or booking agents, or PR people, and they don't know how so I'm doing a 10 week long series on how to work with someone like that. So sort of from the other side, if you're a talent, or you're a guest, how do you work with that agent? That kind of series is really important. If you're a podcasters looking to build your audience, because let me tell you just doing this series really built up my own audience, but also, it really gives valuable information to the people who are looking to pitch.
Gloria Chou 9:30
Yeah. 100% And it seems like I need to be on this series too.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 9:34
For sure.
Gloria Chou 9:36
So So you've received so many pitches, you talked about how far in advance you badge, what are some of the other do's and don'ts of pitching just because you receive 1000s of pitches.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 9:46
Well, if we're talking regular people, as opposed to PR pros is two slightly different things. But I'm gonna I'm gonna I actually just recently released the deck to sort of the public PR pro community if you will. There are there are certain things, as I said earlier know what the know what the show's mission is know what they're trying to do. Because yeah, if you if you throw spaghetti at the wall, you might get some connections where the podcast works with the client that you're trying to pitch. But often it can be a waste of time. So saving yourself and everybody else time is a really good idea listening to the show is really great in part because this is something that we need to remember, if you listen to an episode or two, and you know what the flow is of that show. One pot, one podcaster might be able to host a bunch of the people you're working with if you're a PR Pro, so if you might, you might pitch one person. But if it works out, well, what happens is I one PR pro pitches me, it works out well. And then all of a sudden, I start getting daily pitches from that person, because they know I know what I'm doing as a podcaster. So that's something else. And then I actually, really, if you're a PR Pro, I encourage you to curate, for your clients pick an episode or two and have your client Listen, like I know they're busy, I know the client is busy. But in the long run, it will save their time too. Because they might realize they don't want to be on the show, they might go Wait, she doesn't want hunters on her show. I'm a hunter, this wouldn't be a good fit from my perspective. So you need to know again, you need to know yourself, too. So that's something else I also the relevance, of course is part of it a unique perspective, a unique point of view that that client has like, if you're just another person, I'm going to be very honest here, if you're just another person who's going I want to be on podcasts. That's lovely. But unless you have a point of view and a perspective, like your CPR method, Gloria unless you have a perspective that's relevant to my audience, it's not as exciting for me to have you on the show. And so that's part of it. And then the other part of it is you need to want to bring value to my audience, right? It's not me. And I actually put together a little thing where I said, there's a percentage to look at. And I encourage people to think of it as 30% for you, 10%. For me, as the podcast host and 60%. For my audience, that's the value sort of split that you want to be bringing, if you're bringing 80% for yourself, like I recently had a couple of people on the show. And all they wanted to do was market themselves. That's not interesting to my audience, they may or may not be interested in what this person is selling. So I'm not airing the episode. That's it's in my paperwork that if this content isn't good for my audience, I don't have to air it. Sorry. So I'm very honest and upfront about it that you need to be as a as a podcast guest you need to be very interested in providing value to my audience. If you are not, we might finish the interview, we might stop the interview, but I probably will not air the interview.
Gloria Chou 12:43
So glad you broke it down like that for us. And yes, about sharing the value first. Okay. So I get this question all the time, which is Should people send you a media kit? Or a press kit or a one page attachment with their bio and background?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 12:58
Yes, great question. So, first of all, don't send me an attachment. Unless I ask for it, that's for sure. Because chances are I won't look at it. I'll be very honest, unless I've already unless you've piqued my interest, and I'm already interested, I don't really need to see a press sheet, I would rather see a really concise clean pitch that will be a value to my audience, then to see your press kit, because often unless you give it to me perfectly. It's not useful to me, right. So your press sheet is lovely if I want to see extra information, but the pitch itself is most important. My press sheet is very specific, right, I have all my information, my bio, my socials, headlines of potential headlines, if you will, and then four key questions and their answers and takeaways, but also like links to my headshot and all of that in high res my logo, so that it's very easy for you to use if I'm pitching you, but only after you've already asked for it. So first, I want the pitch. And I wouldn't mind a little bio, but it doesn't need to be your 100 word bio can be a couple sentences that highlight who you are and what you've done. As part of your pitch. Why are you okay, why should I believe you as someone who's an expert on your topic, that kind of a bio in your pitch is great. If what you want is to really wow me relevance to my topic. Make sure that you are focused on serving my audience, how will you serve my audience? And your your unique point of view? Like, you know, I talk about your CPR method all the time, Gloria because it really is that for me personally, No, it's true. It's so beautiful. It's very elegant. For me personally, I also am good with evergreen topics if they're going to serve my audience. So timeliness isn't quite as important to me. Although right now for example, we just said you know, NF T's are huge and if you're a creative, you're probably at least thinking about NF Ts and if you're a creative woman, only 5% of people in NF Ts are women. Out of the 1000s that are going in only 5% Are women so if you're a creative woman I encourage you to start thinking about them. Even if you never get involved, you should at least be educated about it. So women who are in NF Ts, definitely want to be paying attention. And if you're a woman who's working in NF Ts, you're the kind of person I'd want to talk to on my show. Do you see what I'm saying? So it doesn't have to be timely right now. But it's a new and emergent technology that we need to be paying attention to, if we're innovators.
Gloria Chou 15:24
Yes, let's elevate new voices and new groups, and especially female mold breakers and innovators, right? Also, thank you so much for validating that my CPR method works for getting onto a podcast from someone who actually received so many pitches. So tell me more about how you've actually used the CPR method for beyond just getting yourself onto a podcast.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 15:47
Oh, I love that you asked this. So for me, the thing that I do, a lot of what I've done is I've adapted your CPR method, instead of looking at a justice on media, which I've done, I've gotten myself on TV, and on into into newspapers and magazines, some national, some private, like private companies who have their internal, they have their internal magazines that go out to every employee of the company, if there they have, like 10,000 employees or whatever. I've gotten myself into those. And I've used it because I'm talking very much about the importance of having a mindfulness practice. And it's through the lens of creativity. So when I'm talking about that, and you want to make your people feel valued and valuable, one of the ways to do that is to help them invest in themselves. And when I talk about that right now, especially with all our companies coming out of COVID, and everybody's sort of trying to figure out how to live in this new future. That's very important to people right now to the leaders in the decision makers and companies. So I've used it to do that. But also, I've used it to pitch my my work, like I will actually I've taken the CPR method and modified and tweaked it for myself, and use it to pitch I speak on mindfulness and creativity and ethical innovation. So when I'm pitching a company, that's what I do, I use the CPR method slightly modified for my own self, to pitch companies to get to do workshops to get to do speeches with those companies. And it's not earned media per se, but boy, does it work really well, to actually have that style of pitch. So that when I'm talking to them, and going, this is why it's relevant to you, I have a unique point of view. And you're gonna love this because it's going to be wonderful for your people, not your podcast audience or not your reading audience, but your employees, they love it. And it's much easier for me to get the second phone call or the second interview or whatever to get in to work with their people to help them be innovative and ethical in the way they approach their work in their lives.
Gloria Chou 17:48
Love it, I've loved that you use the CPR method and the starter pack for like other opportunities such as you know, paid speaking workshops, I mean, so many powerful ways to grow your audience, right. I've also had other people use it for securing brand partnerships, you name it. So here's my question. After you've received the press, you know, after you've been featured, how do you leverage it to make it go to work for you? How do you make it so that it goes the extra mile, right, and you can keep reaping the benefits of that opportunity?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 18:18
I think one of the things that I love about it is that it's a self perpetuating cycle, the credibility piece, the more you're out there, the more you make sense, the more earn media you get, the more credible you are, right. So it builds on itself. You start with what you know, and how you can serve. And then each time I'm on a new show, or I'm in a new newspaper or magazine or some other publication, I, I reinforced my credibility, right, so So each time I do it, I don't ever, I don't ever sit on my laurels, I would say, but part of it also is that I reshare, right, I elevate the people who were gracious enough to have me on their show or in their magazine or whatever. So I make sure that I elevate them to my audience. And we keep building that way. And having that stable foundation of I know what I'm doing is one thing, but building on it each time sharing the information, giving it out so that people can benefit from it and really, really work on the things that they want to work on and find that success and achieve the way they're trying to achieve. It's built upon by the credibility that we have, and that we keep building when we keep elevating each other as well as ourselves.
Gloria Chou 19:38
Now you receive so many pitches, and you know you've had your podcast for many years. So can you share what you personally are looking for in a pitch and maybe some of your pet peeves?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 19:50
I do. I actually have created a deck for PR pros about exactly what a podcast host wants and needs in order for people to to pitch a podcaster successfully, so if you if you're interested in that I'd be happy to to, it's just a free gift from me to you. I'm happy to share it out. I will send I will send a little link to you, Gloria so that you can have it. And it's just a freebie. You don't even you know, honestly, you don't even have this is something that I think is a service for everybody who's who's trying to get PR. And you don't even have to sign up for anything. I'm just like, hey, here you go. You can have it because I think it will elevate all of us to be able to know really what a podcaster is looking for. Because I gotta tell you, beginning of COVID, we had 700,000 podcasts. Today, we have 2.8 million podcasts out there active podcasts, right, so. So podcasting, in many ways, is the way of the future. And it was really interesting, actually, Rob Greenlee, who I was telling you about earlier, who's pot in the podcasting Hall of Fame. Huge, huge, wonderful guy, wonderful man. He was saying that back in 2004, when podcasting started before social media, before Facebook, before Twitter, before all those, it was the way of the future. And then social media came and sort of pushed podcasting that side a little bit. But over the last few years, with all the weird misinformation and stuff, podcasting has had a real resurgence, right, people are getting a little tired or social media. So they're moving a little bit more into other media, they're moving more into magazines, more into newspapers, pitching, those kinds of things, pitching podcasts. So podcasting has had a real resurgence. And because of that, this is the perfect time to get on podcasts, and really, really shine the light on what you're doing to help the people in your community, whatever that community is. So I really want to encourage people, if you know what you're trying to do, if you know who you're trying to serve. If you have a unique point of view, and you have that credibility, now's the time to pitch podcasts, now's the time to really get out there and do it in a way that's going to work for both of you.
Gloria Chou 21:56
Wow, you've given us so much wisdom and insight from how you've used the CPR method. And honestly, from your own experience pitching in being a podcast host who receives pitches, so I'm gonna have to go back and actually take notes. And for anyone listening, this is definitely an episode you're not going to want to multitask on, especially if you know that this year is the year you want to get featured. So how do people find you and connect with you?
Izolda Trakhtenberg 22:20
Awesome. If you'd like to find me, I'd love to hear from you. I am at is older tea just about everywhere on LinkedIn, on Instagram on tick tock on Twitter. And also you can find me at is old a t.com izoldat.com. My last name is complicated, so I don't use it very much. And if you want to check out the innovative mindset podcast where I talk to peak performers in the Creative Social Impact and environmental spaces, I'd love to have you there. And that's just podcast.is all the t.com. So I'd love to hear from you. And if you have questions that I can answer, I'd be delighted to talk with you.
Gloria Chou 22:58
Yes, and you're in our small business, PR Facebook group adding value, and sharing your PR wins. And honestly even answering people's questions and reviewing their pitches. So thank you so much for being a part of our Facebook group. And for anyone that's listening, you can join us now at www dot get featured now.com get featured now.com. So again, thank you so much for being a part of this community.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 23:22
I am Yes. And I love the Facebook group. There's so much. One of the things that I love about you so much, Gloria, is that you are incredibly selfless. In your wisdom. No, it's so true. You are wise and you're gracious with your wisdom. And that is that is wonderful. And I'm really grateful. I'm grateful for you. And it's funny. Here's here's here's proof of the pudding. Right? When you first pitched me to be on my show, your pitch was perfect. It was perfect. It was using your CPR method. You had done your research, you knew what my podcast was about. And you pitched me in a way that was going to it was a no brainer, right? It was like, Yes, I want you on my show. And in fact, I think when I responded, I went Yes, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. Because because you are so good at giving out information that so many of us need, but don't have. So yay to you for doing that.
Gloria Chou 24:20
I cannot wait for our listeners to use what they've learned on this episode to pitch themselves and share their story because let's be honest, everyone deserves to get onto a podcast, right? It's a really special medium to connect with people. It's so special. And for anyone who's listening and wants to pitch his oldest podcast and get onto her innovative mindset podcast, I recommend that you take what you've listened to here today along with listening to episode two of the Small Business peer podcast before you pitch and I'm sure your chances will be much, much higher. So on that note, thank you so much for being here on the show.
Izolda Trakhtenberg 24:56
Awesome. Thank you so much Gloria.
Gloria Chou 25:05
Just finished another episode of the Small Business PR podcast. I hope you loved it as much as I did. Now, if you want to get free organic press features, get onto top podcasts, and build relationships with editors at your dream outlets. Join me and hundreds of small business owners in the PR starter pack. It's the world's only PR tool that combines my proprietary CPR pitching framework with updated and super detailed media lists. So you'll never need to search for an editor's contact again, or wonder exactly what to write in the pitch email from proven pitch templates to get guides to podcast lists and so much more. It's the PR secret weapon of small but mighty businesses who know that they're meant to go bigger with their message, even if they're just starting out. Go to prstarterpack.com and see how founders from every industry leveraged it to get on to the New York Times Pop Sugar Vogue shape, Wall Street Journal and so many more journalists, no PR agency retainers no expensive contracts required and best of all, no ads or relying on relationships or other people to vouch for you because the PR starter pack has everything you need to feel ready and confident to pitch like the industry expert and even know who you are. I know you're gonna love it. So go to prstarterpack.com And I'll talk to you next week.