Episode 202: How to Promote Yourself (and Your Business) Even If You Don’t Feel Confident w/ John Wang
In this episode of the Gloria Chou PR Podcast, I sit down with John Wang—award-winning author of Big Asian Energy, keynote speaker, podcast host, and educator—whose mission is to help people break through inner blocks and be fully seen for their genius.
John shares his journey as an immigrant and Asian-Canadian entrepreneur navigating assimilation, self-promotion, and the pressure to “blend in.” What started as burnout and even a health scare led him to redefine what belonging and authenticity mean in business.
If you’ve ever struggled with imposter syndrome, self-doubt, or the fear of standing out, this episode will give you a framework for showing up unapologetically.
From Assimilation to Authenticity in Business
John unpacks the difference between assimilation and integration, and why hiding cultural identity comes at the cost of creativity, confidence, and long-term success.
Why Belonging is a Business Strategy
Belonging isn’t just something we seek—it’s something we create. John explains how building spaces of belonging can transform the way we market, lead, and connect with our communities.
How Shame and “Shoulds” Sabotage Growth
Shame often hides in subtle habits like “mitigating language” (“I’m just…” or “I only…”). John reveals how these unconscious patterns keep entrepreneurs small and how a simple “mitigation audit” can shift you into assertiveness.
Tools and Practices to Build Confidence and Visibility
The “I will finally be enough when…” exercise to uncover limiting beliefs
A Mitigation Audit for spotting apologetic language in your emails and pitches
Gloria’s CPR Method (Credibility, Point of View, Relevance) to craft clear, authentic PR messaging
Final Takeaway
Your business cannot thrive if you don’t believe you deserve to be seen. Whether you’re an immigrant, woman of color, neurodivergent founder, or simply someone who has felt “not enough,” this episode reminds you that your story is your superpower.
From burnout to Big Asian Energy—John’s journey shows it’s possible for you, too.
Resources Mentioned:
Join the PR Secrets Masterclass
Join the Small Biz PR Pros Facebook Group
DM the word “PITCH” to us on Instagram to get a pitching freebie https://www.instagram.com/gloriachoupr
Connect with Gloria Chou on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gloriaychou
Join Gloria Chou's PR Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/428633254951941
Connect with John Wang:
Instagram →@johnwangofficial
Linktree →https://linktr.ee/bigasianenergy
Additional Resources:
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TRANsCRIPT
00:00:00 Gloria: Hey, small business heroes, welcome back to Small Business PR where we make PR and marketing super accessible for the everyday small business owner. So today it's gonna be a little bit different. Today is not really going to be the how-to's and the do's and don'ts of PR. I had my new friend. He's an incredible author. He is a podcast host. He's an award-winning author of big Asian energy. By the way, even if you're not Asian, you're gonna want to tune in. The topic of feeling seen, to feel comfortable feeling seen, to feel like you belong when you maybe don't feel like you belong. That's going to be the topic that we're going to talk about today. And whether or not you believe it, it is a core key component to how we show up in business, whether it's for PR or marketing. So welcome to the show, John.
00:00:39 John: Hey, so glad to be here. Thanks so much for having me.
00:00:43 Gloria: So you do many different things. How would you describe just the essence of the work that you are put on earth here to do?
00:00:49 John: Oh, I love this question because it shoots so much deeper than what our usual questions of like, give me your resume. I'm here to help people break through their inner blocks so that they can be seen for the genius that they're here to represent. And I think that for many of us and my own personal story and my own personal journey, I realized that just because all of us are doing the same type of work or same type of business doesn't mean that we're starting from the same place. And a lot of times those starting points play a very significant and often unseen impact in how it is that we show up and are accepted for what it is that we do, and how that can oftentimes create self-sabotaging patterns and ways in which we hold ourselves back.
00:01:33 Gloria: Yeah, so obviously you look very Asian. Your name is John Wang, and I'm sure you've gotten all the jokes. Your book is called Big Asian Energy. You know, I might not have a lot of Asian men listening to this, but I feel like the essence of what we're here to talk about is a through line through so many experiences of small business owners, especially women of color. Can you touch upon why you think that is? Because I can definitely see the resonance.
00:01:53 John: Absolutely. And yeah, I do realize that the name Big Asian Energy is seems predominantly Asian. But the truth is, I have heard from so many different people from such a diverse backgrounds who have said that the same messaging, the same experiences that I've shared is things that they see in their own lives. And I think in particular, if you are a woman of color, you are at that intersection in which you know what it feels like to try to find work and belonging in a space that really wasn't designed for you. And a lot of times we don't realize how big of a deal that is on our own mindset and the way that we show up at work.
00:02:29 John: And this is something that, again, I've spoken to people who are African-American, who are from Latin backgrounds, so many different backgrounds. And the main message that comes back is almost always, wow, I never realized how much that sense of belonging mattered until I found out what it was to not belong. I always talk about this. There's a difference between being accepted and belonging. And again, it's not just like we create inclusive spaces like, oh, look, you're represented. Especially for people who are like myself or people of color, we can't hide the things that makes us different.
00:03:10 John: And like you and I have both jammed on this, like what it feels like to be in a mastermind or what it feels like to be at a networking event or convention or whatever it is. Kind of look around the room and you're just seeing, oh, wow, it's like an ocean of white faces. And then there's you. That feeling of like, oh, yeah, like welcome. And also you realize the stories and the experiences and the journeys that we carry are not always reflected by that environment and how that could create an impact.
00:03:39 Gloria: Yeah, totally. I always say what is wrong with so much of marketing is assuming that people just fit in the box with one life experience and somehow our own journeys is devoid from how we show up in business. And the more that we build our businesses, and I'm sure you know this, too, is that there really is so much crossover in our business is a reflection of our stories, of what we've inherited from our parents, of how do we show up?
00:04:00 Gloria: If I give you all the tools, do you feel safe showing up? So I love what you said about that, because there's just so much one size fits all marketing templates out there. And me and you, we chewed that up and we were doing those things like when I was following all the templates. So can you tell me about when you realized that you needed to create a path for yourself, that maybe there needs to be more nuance in the way that we show up in marketing and business and in our message?
00:04:23 John: Yeah, absolutely. And I think especially if you're a small business, this is particularly key because the truth is we don't just buy products. We buy the story of the person who creates it. And if you have a small business, you might notice this as being even more pronounced. Like people want to support you because this is what we relate to. And the more public it is that we are expected to show up sometimes, the harder it is. So for me, I was like a super shy, super [you know] awkward kid growing up. I call my book Big Asian Energy because whatever I had at the beginning of my journey, it definitely was not that.
00:05:00 John: There was no big energy. I grew up basically being taught that hard work was everything. Very traditional Asian parenting backgrounds in the sense that I was always taught work hard, keep your head down, don't make waves. And this was something I took very much to heart, especially growing up in an environment where the first school I attended when I was in North America, I was one of two non-white kids. And actually working hard turned out to be something that made sense to me because you don't want to stand out.
00:05:30 John: Because when you're going through those formative years, the idea of standing out when you're a teenager was the worst thing you could ever go through. Like you want to be seen, but not really. You want to be seen like the cool kids were. And a lot of times in the schools that we attend, the cool kids were the group of white kids who were like the bros and the jocks and those people. And what that actually taught me at the very least was that when I was going through that journey, I look back now and I go, "Oh, what I learned was finding safety in being as much like those people as possible. And there was a lot of expectation of not just assimilation.
00:06:06 John: We talk about assimilation, but we don't realize that assimilation isn't actually the goal. It actually is integration. And assimilation basically is let's take whoever you are and, oh, well, that's not normal. You don't look like everyone else. Let's hide that part of you. [L--] Let's hide your identity. Let's hide your background. Let's hide whatever you're eating and whatever you like because, well, they might not be understood or accepted. And I did that a lot.
00:06:30 John: So anytime that I came out and I shared stories, I would notice myself being a little bit of a chameleon. I would shapeshift into trying to fit in and speak like everyone else and act like everyone else because that was the template of success. And it really affected my mindset as I later on look back because around the time that I was 30, I was building an education business. I was helping kids who most of them were Asian, but it wasn't like I was specifically saying, well, I'm going to work with Asian kids. But most of them who came to me were Asian kids who wanted to get into top schools.
00:07:02 John: And I didn't realize this, but I was still teaching them the exact same messaging. I was like, "Well, okay, if you're going to try to get into these top schools, you should make sure not to mention the fact that you played violin and piano because that's such a stereotype. Don't mention these cultural things. Don't mention these things and just try to whitewash your resume as much as possible." And as a matter of fact, there are still studies that showed that applicants who have basically any cultural elements on their resume.
00:07:31 John: And for me, there was a study that shows specifically for Asian-Americans was that Asian applicants would get literally half as many callbacks if there were parts of their resume that mentioned their culture or their race. [gulps] And this was still the case even for companies that have, oh, we have good DEI policies and inclusivity practices because that expectation is so built into the biases that we go through. And that was something that I didn't realize how big it was until I started realizing that I was burning myself out.
00:08:04 John: So around the time that I was 30, I was working super hard because, again, that was a story. Work hard, keep your head down, don't make waves. So I worked, worked, worked, worked until literally I burnt out. I can tell you the exact moment that it happened. I was literally on stage giving a talk about performance of all things and how to increase your performance when I felt this pain in my stomach. And it was a searing hot pain. And later on, I'll find out that essentially I was so tense and I was gripping my whole body all the time from this expectation and [and] anticipation that I was going to get found out or attacked or whatever it was.
00:08:45 John: And I was constantly holding my gut that I collapsed. And I was still on stage. I'm trying to make sure that I was looking okay. But my entire body was just screaming at me. It was saying, look, if you don't get off the stage or deal with this right now, you're going to fall down. [plosives] And fortunately, I literally just sat down on stage because, God forbid, I actually leave the stage and finished the rest of my talk. And I realized something had to change. And that was when I started looking deeper into, wait a second, is this something that I really need to take a look at as a deeper part of how I'm showing up every day for my work?
00:09:24 Gloria: Ooh, thank you for sharing that story. You told me that you had an ulcer. I mean, that is totally your second brain telling you that you don't feel safe and it's fight or flight mode all the time.
00:09:33 John: Oh, yeah. And it was so deep. This is, I think, generational. And we keep different parts of our, essentially, our trauma in different parts of our body. I'm a really big believer that when we heal, we have to heal the whole. And this is why it is that I don't think there is a difference between the work that we do, the way that we show up, and our own sense of safety. And what I'm talking about safety is that safety in your body where you can go, I'm allowed to be who I authentically am without having to pretend or hide and still be accepted and still be allowed and given permission to exist.
00:10:08 John: And the spaces that I was showing up in, you know, at these like business masterminds or even in my own work and my own press, etc. I was really still hiding. And very unconsciously, it was in my messaging. It was my social media posts. Anything that I felt like was too exposing of my real self, I would unconsciously scrub out or use software languaging or just essentially whitewashing.
00:10:33 Gloria: Hmmm. tsk. When you think about [clears throat] online business coach or entrepreneur, probably don't think of an Asian man. And same thing with PR. You don't think of an Asian woman. But the work that we're doing here is so important. And it's so deep. And it's intense and it's a lot. But it's unraveling all the things that we were told and then creating a new path, which is really painful because you have to pretty much die a death every single day of what you were taught and then to do something new. But then also to have the self-trust that you will be accepted.
00:11:00 Gloria: I love what you said about assimilation versus integration. And obviously, when we think about those words, we think about socioeconomic immigration policies. But I see a lot of that in what's happening with online marketing right now. And there's this old guard. That's what we hear. All the loudest guys in the room, the people doing your 10x funnels. And that's really about assimilating to kind of the old guard of marketing. More is always better. Your whole self-worth is wrapped up in how much you make. Your top-line revenue is the determinant of how successful you are.
00:11:31 Gloria: And I think because of COVID, because of AI, because of everything that we've been through, and now we have digital spidey senses, information is no longer a precious commodity. Everyone is an expert. People are starting to realize, like, oh, wow, there really is a different path. And how can I create that new path? So I think it's amazing that we finally come to this point. Obviously, it's not soon enough. But I think people are starting to wake up to the fact that the point of marketing and business is not to be like everyone else.
00:11:55 Gloria: And you actually gain a lot more value if you can do the work and be brave enough to do something different and bold. And so that's what I love about the stance that you've taken. Because you're not just like, hey, I'm just going to be another business coach. I'm really going to niche down. And I want to name my book Big Asian Energy, even if it means that other people might not identify it. But there's a universal [glitch] message for everybody.
00:12:16 John: Hmm. Absolutely. And this is really at the heart of it. It isn't about being Asian, it's about being more you. I could have easily just called the book Big You Energy. And exactly as you say, it's not that it's about your identity. People think that it's about color of your skin or whatever it is. But it actually is the idea that you have a different way and a different point of view of doing things when it comes to marketing. Because really, marketing your business is marketing yourself. Like it sounds almost contrarian because we don't realize how much of your essence and how much of your being exists in it.
00:12:52 John: You could be a small business Etsy founder, and you create this thing. But this thing contains your essence because it contains your point of view. It's what you value, what you find interesting, and what you love. And understanding that the world has not always given that type of voice the same space is an important one. Because just because we've always done things in this way, and marketing has always looked like this, doesn't mean that the other ways that your way of doing things is not only just as good, if not better.
00:13:31 John: And as a matter of fact, we need it. Because when you show up in your authentic self, and you're expressing who you truly are, and your beliefs and your point of views, actually more and more people are given permission to show up along you. And they're going to show up as your customers. They're going to show up as your clients. They're going to show up as your biggest fans because they go, "You get me." It's not about having a billion views. It's about the fact that they can look at you and be like, "No, no, you're telling a story that I haven't heard being told yet." And I think that's such an important part of it.
00:14:03 Gloria: I love what you said about belonging and how we need to feel like we can belong. And we also need to create belonging for us to really unlock that level of success. What are the things that you've learned as an Asian-American man, an immigrant, someone who is in a space that, honestly, not many people look like you at all, teaching other people about belonging? What can we learn from your experience?
00:14:21 John: I think belonging is not just something we seek. It's something we create. As in, if you are not finding spaces of belonging, great, go create it. Because we need people who are actively channeling and actively championing their messaging and their identity. And for me, it was a tough decision. At the beginning of this book, I had a business that was doing great. And at the time that I was kind of going through, I was traveling around the world, I had all these followers, I had all this stuff. And I'm very happy at this point. This was during the time of COVID, around the time that there was this rise in anti-Asian hate.
00:14:56 John: And basically, somebody reached out to me and said, "Hey, would you like to come and speak at our rally?" So I went and I shared. And I remember looking, and I'm standing on stage at the time. And I had this beautiful speech that I had written and perfected. And I love public speaking and keynote speaking. And I remember bringing that up with me. And I just looked at this crowd of other Asian people. And again, you had a picture of that. I am on a stage in front of all these people at a rally. And I started crying.
00:15:29 John: This was the worst thing you could do as a public speaker when you go on stage. There's a clip of this. You can find it on my website or whatever it is. And I literally was just choking back tears because I looked at the faces of all the people looking out at me. And I realized, wow, they're going through something that I never realized. I wanted to be seen. And that was when I said, you know what? I'm going to talk about this. And it was a tough decision because it was exactly the same thing as you're saying.
00:15:58 John: For me to talk to Asians means that I am also in some ways letting go of a lot of other people who could have followed me. I was shifting content on my social media, all these kind of things. I think I remember when I made the announcement, I was talking about it. I was on TikTok. And I think I lost 10,000 followers overnight. It was a sharp drop working with our social media team. And she was just like, what happened? And I'm like, we're taking a stand. We're We're coming out. And it's tough when you do because I had friends. You know I had some very, I would say, more perhaps right-leaning friends.
00:16:31 John: And they sent me a message. And one of them was like, "Why do you say that you're a person of color? Why do you use the word POC? You're not POC." I'm like, "Do you see this?" There is this moment of reality disconnection that we kind of went through. And I chatted. And there is this perception, especially with Asian-Americans, is that we are white-adjacent. And that's where we found safety. And I think this is the big part of history is that because a lot of times in our culture, there is this expectation to, again, work hard, keep your head down, don't make waves.
00:17:00 John: The idea of being white-adjacent was also a way for us to go, okay, as long as no one's looking at us, no one's going to attack us, we'll get enough success to skate by without having to really confront this. And I think that decision to say, [ringing sound-frequency] you know what? No, I'm done hiding. I'm.. [frequency] it.. It's just not serving me anymore. It's exhausting. I'm getting ulcers. And I'm here to really ask, what is it that I want to leave behind and that was when I made the decision to make a change.
00:17:30 Gloria: Ohh, so good. It's like supporting character energy versus main character energy.
00:17:34 John: Oh, yes. Such a beautiful way to put it.
00:11:00 Gloria: We've seen our parents come to this country on boats with $5 in their pocket, with food rations. So it's all about safety and how can we be safe? Safe. It's just to play a supporting role. And so much of my own journey is unraveling that and making my own decisions. So much of our culture is harmony. And w-- What does a group want? And make other people feel comfortable first. And that's the story of so many immigrants, too. And I think that also inhibits us in many ways. When we do have to advocate for our business, especially from a PR point of view, we need to feel safe and actually go after it and give you all the tools in the world. But if you don't feel like you really deserve it, or that you feel confident pitching for yourself, or somehow you feel like it's indulgent, then it's just it's not going to get you there. So I love what you said about that.
00:18:19 Gloria: And it's really interesting. Something about the Asian American experience that I don't think people really talk about or realize, because you know minority, it's all in one bucket. But there's such a huge cultural gap. There's such a huge language gap. I mean, raise your hand if people ask you if you speak English. I've [glitch?] had that so many times, even as a US diplomat. So I love that you took the Asian lens to talk about these universal themes. And I think that's so important.
00:18:43 Gloria:That's why I actually had you on this podcast, because I think there's so many intersectionality, specifically the Asian-American experience being more recent immigrants, but then also being so close in proximity to famine and war and things that are so different. Imperialism is really interesting for us to assimilate and unravel in this one lifetime.
00:19:01 John: Hmm.. Absolutely. And one of the big things that, for example, that comes up so often, especially with my own clients is self-promotion. Self-promotion is such an important part of any business owner. You're literally doing it every single day. Whatever it is you're talking about on social media, you're essentially promoting your work. You're essentially promoting something you're proud of, something you created. But in Asian cultures, the idea of self-promotion is extremely looked down upon, because so much of our core values is humility, and you want to put others first.
00:19:29 John: So it is totally fine for you to promote everyone else. But there's so much apologetic energy whenever I see Asian-Americans, but also a lot of people of color when they put their hand up. And this is a very common thing I see with women as well, where there's this like, oh, I have to prove myself first. I have to really show that I'm working harder, not just hard, but harder than everyone else in the room. I'm making more sacrifices. I'm taking on more work. I'm burning myself out harder before I'm even allowed to consider putting myself on the list. And we so often put ourselves last.
00:20:10 John: And I ask, why? That is not the culture that we live in now. That is not where you're currently at now. This is a space where we actually value assertiveness. We value people who put their hands up. And this is something we should celebrate, especially because it is a part of this new world that we might have come into.
00:20:29 Gloria: Ooh, it's so good. That really brings it home for us that this is such a universal experience, but through your journey, you kind of arrived at the same place, which is we're all dealing with some imposter syndrome or feeling of unworthiness, whether that's for us, cultural, or maybe for other people from their families. But our business cannot survive without us literally breaking apart that belief that we don't deserve to be seen and go after it. What else have you found? Or do you have any other tips or strategies that have really worked for people who don't feel like they belong, whether they're neurodivergent or they're differently abled, or maybe they just don't feel pretty or skinny, or maybe they feel like they're past their prime. How can they still feel confident to feel seen and belong?
00:21:07 John: A big thing of understanding where it is that comes from has to do with essentially a big word, which is shame.
00:21:15 John: And shame is a hard thing to talk about because whenever we hear it, most people's first reaction is, I don't feel any shame. I feel proud. I'm proud of who I am. But then shame can appear in so many little hidden places. And shame is where we hit those little unspoken stories. One of the things you brought up is imposter syndrome. I love talking about imposter syndrome because studies do show that people of color disproportionately, massively disproportionately experience higher states of imposter syndrome than, again, those who are in the majority, like white folks.
00:21:44 John: And there's truth to that because in some ways we think about it, especially prior to this generation, we were imposters. We were taught to assimilate. So we're trying to prove that we can be like white people, which of course we're not. So we're constantly carrying this little bit of like, ooh, can I be loud here? If I'm loud, will I be seen as being too loud? And that story is always comes back to the not enoughness. And I hear this so often. Anytime somebody used the word, I should, I always point out that the should is almost always a, I don't want to.
00:22:20 John: And usually if we dig deep enough in the shoulds, there's always a part of it that goes, I don't want to because I'm scared that I'm not enough, that I'm not good enough, smart enough, strong enough, capable enough, successful enough, have enough followers or whatever it is. And that's where it is that we tend to hide ourselves the most. And I always love saying, well, there's only one way we can root that out, which is the truth. And so, for example, one of the favorite questions I love to ask is I get people to write down a single statement, which is, I will finally be enough at blank when I blank.
00:22:53 John: And I go, well, this is a belief that you're carrying around anyway, why don't we bring it out? So, for example, you might be a business owner and you'd be like, well, I don't know if right now is the time for me to go public with this thing yet or, or talk about how this is such a great thing. Unless I say, great. Okay. So my message would finally be good enough to be shared with the public when I what? And this is where people pause and they go, "Huh? I don't have an answer to the second part." Or maybe the second part of the answer is like, when I know everything there is about the topic. When I know definitively that there's nobody else doing this exact same product. I know when I know more than everyone in the company. And I go, "Oh, that's interesting. Is that true? Do you have that same perception with your friends? Do you see it like that with others?" And the answer is almost always no.
00:23:44 John: And I go, then why do you hold it to yourself? Sometimes it just takes that one question for us to go, [overlap] oh, okay. That belief doesn't serve me anymore. And I'm ready to let go.
00:23:55 Gloria: That is such a powerful reframe. You're going to have to come into our community and do an exercise. I mean, for those of you listening and multitasking, you're going to want to listen to this part again. Every time you feel like you are not ready to do something, I get this all the time with PR. I'm just not ready. Answer that question. When will you be ready? And it's never really something tangible. It's just something we make in our head. That is so powerful.
00:24:15 Gloria: I can't wait to read your book and all the brilliant insights. Is there anything you want to leave our audience with? I think at the time of recording now, we're really at a really beautiful time, but also a hard time because there's so much transition with businesses reckoning with who they want to be. They want to take a loud stance. And it's hard to be neutral in this day and age. So given what we're going through as a society, so much change, so much transition, so much who do we want to be in all of this? Do you have any final words you want to leave with our audience?
00:24:46 John: Absolutely. One of the biggest things I find is that when we don't speak up, it usually comes from a lack of trust in ourselves and assertiveness. So I actually have a little assertiveness guide that we go through. And I share this with people because I love when people get to go through and identify when they are unconsciously mitigating themselves. And mitigating comes out in our language. So for example, I hear this all the time where people go to like an event and they're like, I am just a blah, blah, blah. They use the word just to describe themselves. I'm just a blank.
00:25:16 John: So these are ways in which we're actually putting ourselves down without realizing it. It could be in our emails when we use these little micro apologies or it could be the way that we put ourselves down in our communications. So I always recommend people do a mitigation audit. Look at your messages. Take your emails. Run them all through ChatGPT if you want to go through this and say flag all the times I'm using and I have a whole list of these words like just and only this what we call mitigating language and ask what would happen if I shifted that language to be a little bit more assertive instead.
00:25:49 John: So if you want to check out that guide, by the way, you can go to my Instagram. It's johnwangofficial. [plosive] And send me a DM and drop Gloria in the thing and I'll send a copy to you.
00:25:58 Gloria: And it's John W-A-N-G official.
00:26:01 John: John W-A-N-G. Yeah, that's right, official on Instagram.
00:26:05 Gloria: Awesome. And you also have a podcast. [overlap]
00:26:07 John: I sure do. It's also called Big Asian Energy. You can go and check it out. We talk about all these topics and we interview incredible human beings who have broken through those ceilings in their own worlds and they share their secrets, including Gloria. [chuckles]
00:26:21 Gloria: Oh, thank you so much. This has been such an enriching and nourishing conversation. That's been a breath of fresh air from our usual topics. I do touch upon these topics, but I think having you, an Asian, Canadian man, an immigrant to talk about this topic is very interesting. And it brought so many layers and textures to this conversation. So I so, so appreciate you. And for anyone that's listening, if you have ever felt like you didn't belong or that you somehow needed to be at a certain level of business to be seen and accepted or use those little micro apologies because you are afraid of being judged, this is the episode you need to keep coming back to.
00:26:55 Gloria: And please send it to a friend, as always, so that hopefully they'll also be reminded of the power and worthiness that's already innately within them. So thank you so much for listening and until next time.
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